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OpenAI CEO Sam Altman First Person to Get Indonesian Golden Visa

34 points by pinewurst 3y ago

pinewurst 3y ago
https://archive.ph/GaxBd https://archive.ph/GaxBd
Proven 3y ago
[dead]
wodenokoto 3y ago
I get why people want golden visas for Dubai, Canada or Portugal. What is the pull for Indonesia?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dogma1138 3y ago
  I would put Indonesia on the same level as Dubai, rule of law isn’t guaranteed.
  - wodenokoto 3y ago
    But Dubai has very lucrative tax incentives and tries hard to be neutral about who invests. So whether you are Russian, Chinese or Ukrainian Dubai is a good option for parking assets without being asked too many questions.
    - fakedang 3y ago
      It's only a good option if you're not going to be involved with business in the West that much. Once you start thinking about moving to the West, or setting up a business in the US or EU, be prepared to be asked a LOT of questions, and being demanded non-existent paperwork (because Dubai authorities don't bother with stuff that would be important in other jurisdictions). Speaking from experience. The income tax and the corporate tax in the free zones are the only big draws, but who knows how long they'll last? The mainland already has a 10% corporate tax.
  - Gud 3y ago
    In what way is the rule of law worse in Dubai than elsewhere? It's one of the safest places I've ever been to. Please note I am not saying there haven't been injustices committed in Dubai. But I do not think it's worse there than in western Europe. Definitely doesn't seem worse than the US.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - lawisimportant 3y ago
      " Article 72 of the Law on Personal Status allows judges to determine if it is permissible for a married woman to leave the house and to work. Unlike the case of children of Emirati fathers, Emirati citizenship is not transmitted automatically to the children of Emirati women." "Some of the women's rights under the Personal Status Law require the consent of a male guardian, who is often the husband or a male family member." "Women in UAE can be victims of flogging. Flogging and stoning are legal judicial punishments in the UAE because of the Sharia courts. Flogging is used in UAE as a punishment for several criminal offences, such as adultery, premarital sex, and prostitution." "Emirati women must receive permission from male guardian to remarry. This requirement is derived from Sharia, and has been considered a federal law since 2005. In all emirates, it is illegal for Muslim women to marry non-Muslims. In the UAE, a marriage union between a Muslim woman and non-Muslim man is punishable by law, since it is considered a form of fornication". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_Arab_Emira... sorry truth it's brutal out there, behind those concrete jungle. ME is not what it's look from outside.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > what way is the rule of law worse in Dubai than elsewhere? There isn’t rule of law in Dubai. By definition, its courts serve its sovereign. Pyongyang is also safe, that doesn’t mean it has rule of law. (Dubai is fantastic. But pretending it has the rule of law is absurd. Nobody strikes international agreements per UAE law.)
- Gys 3y ago
  A very very wild guess, because that is the only reason why I maybe would be interested: https://www.privateislandsonline.com/region/indonesia/ https://www.privateislandsonline.com/region/indonesia/ `Indonesian law does not permit private ownership of an island. Shares of a resort business, however, can be sold to anyone.`
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- _8j50 3y ago
  Cynically, I would say a similar scheme/desire to do what was tried in kenya where biometric data was collected from people in exchange for payment. They are a huge country by population alone, training LLMs on their data or providing jobs to train/tune/coddle LLMs there might be a huge win for their politicians. But optimistically, I would say they just want to make their country attractive to tech business and the CEO dude just wants to get a lot of real estate in Bali.
  - r9295 3y ago
    I doubt a Golden visa would be necessary to conduct such practices.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      For example, they are also doing it in Berlin.
- devoutsalsa 3y ago
  Bali is very popular.
- melx 3y ago
  It has cheap(er) resources to be able to employ lots of people to work on tuning a large LLM. Hypothetically thinking only.
- Frannyies 3y ago
  What's the pull for Dubai?
  - jerjerjer 3y ago
    Expanding business to the ME. Winters here are quite nice too.
  - Gud 3y ago
    If you have money, it's a very comfortable life there. Nice beaches, great shopping, world class restaurants plus it's close to a lot of countries. Direct flights to most of Europe, India, Africa and Asia.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      If you like spending your life in what is basically an artificial resort in the middle of the desert :) It wouldn't appeal to me. Also I would want to be able to drink when I want to and walk around with trans friends. Go for a walk in nature when I need to relax. Dubai feels like a shopping and entertainment center for the rich. It's all about materialistic indulgence and nothing else. Not somewhere I'd actually want to live even if I had money.
    - srvmshr 3y ago
      Visited Dubai couple of years ago. Nice place to visit for a few days if you remain oblivious to how its society functions; but taking up residence will feel like living in a shopping mall always. Also, the general idea of labour abuse conveyed by this linked article[1] is mostly true. Some excerpts > This is all supposed to be illegal. Employers are meant to pay on time, never take your passport, give you breaks in the heat – but I met nobody who said it happens. Not one. These men are conned into coming and trapped into staying, with the complicity of the Dubai authorities > There's a huge number of suicides in the camps and on the construction sites, but they're not reported. They're described as 'accidents'. Even then, their families aren't free: they simply inherit the debts. I was made aware of such labor traps meted out to Philippine and Thai women as well, who were forced to work in beauty & massage parlors, or as house maids. I was accompanying my parents a decade ago, who were rapporteurs on behalf of UNHRC. In many places, we were physically stopped from proceeding. The situation I am told has improved a tiny bit, but still remains grim. When you look at Dubai's manpower resources - you aren't looking at a industry, but more of a cartel working at a nation-scale. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-har...
papichulo2023 3y ago
Not really sure why this is news worthy. Milloneres get this kind of exception all the time everywhere, including EU and Usa.
- esperent 3y ago
  I think it's news worthy because he's the first, not because of who he is. However, I don't think it's hackernews worthy. There's nothing relevant to tech about this.
  - Daviey 3y ago
    Oh, that's easy. I'll help. The story is two-fold: 1. He's a prominent person in current tech, so people are interested in what he is doing and where he is possibly looking to relocate. 2. Indonesia is actively trying to attract wealthy foreign investors, which is relevant to HN and they succeeded in getting Sam Altman.
BearhatBeer 3y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20230905170708/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-05/openai-ceo-sam-altman-first-person-to-get-indonesian-golden-visa https://web.archive.org/web/20230905170708/https://www.bloom... Blocked for people who value their privacy but the Internet Archive has it.

34 points by pinewurst 3y ago

pinewurst 3y ago

https://archive.ph/GaxBd https://archive.ph/GaxBd

Proven 3y ago

[dead]

wodenokoto 3y ago

I get why people want golden visas for Dubai, Canada or Portugal. What is the pull for Indonesia?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dogma1138 3y ago
I would put Indonesia on the same level as Dubai, rule of law isn’t guaranteed.
- wodenokoto 3y ago
  But Dubai has very lucrative tax incentives and tries hard to be neutral about who invests. So whether you are Russian, Chinese or Ukrainian Dubai is a good option for parking assets without being asked too many questions.
  - fakedang 3y ago
    It's only a good option if you're not going to be involved with business in the West that much. Once you start thinking about moving to the West, or setting up a business in the US or EU, be prepared to be asked a LOT of questions, and being demanded non-existent paperwork (because Dubai authorities don't bother with stuff that would be important in other jurisdictions). Speaking from experience. The income tax and the corporate tax in the free zones are the only big draws, but who knows how long they'll last? The mainland already has a 10% corporate tax.
- Gud 3y ago
  In what way is the rule of law worse in Dubai than elsewhere? It's one of the safest places I've ever been to. Please note I am not saying there haven't been injustices committed in Dubai. But I do not think it's worse there than in western Europe. Definitely doesn't seem worse than the US.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lawisimportant 3y ago
    " Article 72 of the Law on Personal Status allows judges to determine if it is permissible for a married woman to leave the house and to work. Unlike the case of children of Emirati fathers, Emirati citizenship is not transmitted automatically to the children of Emirati women." "Some of the women's rights under the Personal Status Law require the consent of a male guardian, who is often the husband or a male family member." "Women in UAE can be victims of flogging. Flogging and stoning are legal judicial punishments in the UAE because of the Sharia courts. Flogging is used in UAE as a punishment for several criminal offences, such as adultery, premarital sex, and prostitution." "Emirati women must receive permission from male guardian to remarry. This requirement is derived from Sharia, and has been considered a federal law since 2005. In all emirates, it is illegal for Muslim women to marry non-Muslims. In the UAE, a marriage union between a Muslim woman and non-Muslim man is punishable by law, since it is considered a form of fornication". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_Arab_Emira... sorry truth it's brutal out there, behind those concrete jungle. ME is not what it's look from outside.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > what way is the rule of law worse in Dubai than elsewhere? There isn’t rule of law in Dubai. By definition, its courts serve its sovereign. Pyongyang is also safe, that doesn’t mean it has rule of law. (Dubai is fantastic. But pretending it has the rule of law is absurd. Nobody strikes international agreements per UAE law.)
Gys 3y ago
A very very wild guess, because that is the only reason why I maybe would be interested: https://www.privateislandsonline.com/region/indonesia/ https://www.privateislandsonline.com/region/indonesia/ `Indonesian law does not permit private ownership of an island. Shares of a resort business, however, can be sold to anyone.`
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
_8j50 3y ago
Cynically, I would say a similar scheme/desire to do what was tried in kenya where biometric data was collected from people in exchange for payment. They are a huge country by population alone, training LLMs on their data or providing jobs to train/tune/coddle LLMs there might be a huge win for their politicians. But optimistically, I would say they just want to make their country attractive to tech business and the CEO dude just wants to get a lot of real estate in Bali.
- r9295 3y ago
  I doubt a Golden visa would be necessary to conduct such practices.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    For example, they are also doing it in Berlin.
devoutsalsa 3y ago
Bali is very popular.
melx 3y ago
It has cheap(er) resources to be able to employ lots of people to work on tuning a large LLM. Hypothetically thinking only.
Frannyies 3y ago
What's the pull for Dubai?
- jerjerjer 3y ago
  Expanding business to the ME. Winters here are quite nice too.
- Gud 3y ago
  If you have money, it's a very comfortable life there. Nice beaches, great shopping, world class restaurants plus it's close to a lot of countries. Direct flights to most of Europe, India, Africa and Asia.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    If you like spending your life in what is basically an artificial resort in the middle of the desert :) It wouldn't appeal to me. Also I would want to be able to drink when I want to and walk around with trans friends. Go for a walk in nature when I need to relax. Dubai feels like a shopping and entertainment center for the rich. It's all about materialistic indulgence and nothing else. Not somewhere I'd actually want to live even if I had money.
  - srvmshr 3y ago
    Visited Dubai couple of years ago. Nice place to visit for a few days if you remain oblivious to how its society functions; but taking up residence will feel like living in a shopping mall always. Also, the general idea of labour abuse conveyed by this linked article[1] is mostly true. Some excerpts > This is all supposed to be illegal. Employers are meant to pay on time, never take your passport, give you breaks in the heat – but I met nobody who said it happens. Not one. These men are conned into coming and trapped into staying, with the complicity of the Dubai authorities > There's a huge number of suicides in the camps and on the construction sites, but they're not reported. They're described as 'accidents'. Even then, their families aren't free: they simply inherit the debts. I was made aware of such labor traps meted out to Philippine and Thai women as well, who were forced to work in beauty & massage parlors, or as house maids. I was accompanying my parents a decade ago, who were rapporteurs on behalf of UNHRC. In many places, we were physically stopped from proceeding. The situation I am told has improved a tiny bit, but still remains grim. When you look at Dubai's manpower resources - you aren't looking at a industry, but more of a cartel working at a nation-scale. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-har...

papichulo2023 3y ago

Not really sure why this is news worthy. Milloneres get this kind of exception all the time everywhere, including EU and Usa.

esperent 3y ago
I think it's news worthy because he's the first, not because of who he is. However, I don't think it's hackernews worthy. There's nothing relevant to tech about this.
- Daviey 3y ago
  Oh, that's easy. I'll help. The story is two-fold: 1. He's a prominent person in current tech, so people are interested in what he is doing and where he is possibly looking to relocate. 2. Indonesia is actively trying to attract wealthy foreign investors, which is relevant to HN and they succeeded in getting Sam Altman.

BearhatBeer 3y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20230905170708/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-05/openai-ceo-sam-altman-first-person-to-get-indonesian-golden-visa https://web.archive.org/web/20230905170708/https://www.bloom... Blocked for people who value their privacy but the Internet Archive has it.