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> I thought most people in the US were proud of their firearm handling professionalism which of course includes not brandishing or murdering people. I take it

> I thought most people in the US were proud of their firearm handling professionalism which of course includes not brandishing or murdering people. I take it you have not actually visited the United States.

DiggyJohnson 3y ago
It seems like you’re the one that hasn’t been here. That’s a shocking number of gun related incidents in the GP. Seems like accessing TV/internet must be an issue like road rage that brings out the absolute worst in people. People don’t go around popping shots at technicians or waving their weapons around in the US.
- noduerme 3y ago
  I'd be interested to know what state they were working in.
  - cutemonster 3y ago
    If you work as a cable technician, 6 customers a day, that's around 2000 in a year. If 1 in 100 is mentally ill, in a bad mood (TV broken!) and with a gun ... Maybe there's some selection bias: You'll tend to meet angry people, who are more dumb (couldn't fix the problem themselves?)? Maybe in any weapon loving place, a job where you visit lots of people at their homes and help fixing something that's broken, is mildly dangerous?
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Especially if you’re disconnecting service - I dare say the repo tow truck drivers encounter MANY more gun incidents than the average AAA tow truck driver. However I suspect the repo company allows its employees (or they’re self-employed) to carry in retaliation - I strongly suspect that the cable companies don’t allow their repairmen to pack heat. It’s like the thin bread line - pizza delivery is more dangerous than being a cop.
      - jollyllama 3y ago
        >However I suspect the repo company allows its employees (or they’re self-employed) to carry in retaliation I doubt it. That'd be a huge liability.
        bombcar 3y ago
        Dig into it further; it's been one of the "qualifying reasons" for some of the states with the hardest-to-get CCW permits. Remember that repo companies are often incredibly small single-person "companies" contracted out.
- kelnos 3y ago
  > People don’t go around popping shots at technicians or waving their weapons around in the US. I think that's highly dependent on where in the US, and what kind of neighborhoods and people these technicians are working in. The idea that such places exist in the US does not surprise me in the least. But at the same time, there are certainly places in the US where the majority of gun owners do handle their firearms responsibly.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Nearly every cable technician has these stories. A lot of what cable technicians do is go to a house to disconnect for non-payment. These people are rarely well off, and are often a subset of the worst of the worst people in the country. Cable technicians can tell you stories of honest to goodness nazis, terrifyingly mentally broken people, lunatics who think they should be able to shoot anyone stepping foot on their property, etc. Basically if there is a person who is shitty in any way, they probably won't pay their cable and the technician is going to get to meet them. My brother is an avid gun "advocate" (nut), but he still wasn't happy being threatened with guns from yokels who don't like paying bills.
noduerme 3y ago
In fairness, everyone I know in the US who owns firearms - which is basically everyone I know here - takes safety and knowledge of the laws around storing/carrying/brandishing/firing them very seriously. But the sheer scale of the US population and the absolute number of guns is just difficult to conceive of from a European perspective. We have something like 60 privately owned guns in this country for every person in the Czech Republic. So even if only 1% of our gun-owning population were irresponsible or criminal with them, it would still add up to a lot of deaths every day.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Same, but I suspect there's a bit of selection bias going on there in both our cases. I just don't think I'd be able to sustain a friendship with the kind of person who owns guns and handles them irresponsibly, and I expect the same might be true of you.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    You’re spot on - everyone who I know who “does gun” has an extremely hostile reaction to people who handle them irresponsibly. And those people are often irresponsible in many other ways, too.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Except everyone who "has a hostile reaction to people who handle guns irresponsibly" has a story of a range or person they know who does exactly that, and their response is simply to stay away, instead of narcing on them and making the community safer at the expense of being a tattle tale. So there are plenty of people who call themselves "responsible gun owners" but turn a complete blind eye to bad behavior. Or they will keep a loaded gun in their bedroom for home defense, something that is outright NOT responsible gun owner behavior, yet is the primary cited reason people own guns in the US.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  I guess that seems reasonable, but now it makes me wonder about the graph - it can't be that the people who take gun ownership and security safety only know people who do likewise - how many people who take these matters seriously still have friends they hang out with who take it less seriously. Why? Well bad apples and stuff, it's hard to believe perfect discipline is maintained when some of those around you have less than perfect discipline. It seems like a question that one could probably get pretty close to answering (although not perfect).
wkat4242 3y ago
[flagged]
- kube-system 3y ago
  It is impossible to lump all US gun owners into a single stereotype, when a third of Americans own one. Any chunk of the population that large includes people of all kinds. In my experience, the people who are most responsible are the ones who you don't even know own guns, because they keep them locked up and out of sight.
- Slava_Propanei 3y ago
  [dead]
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  [flagged]
talldatethrow 3y ago
There are over 300 million fire arms in the US. Yet other than criminals shooting rivals, and people commiting suicide, almost no one uses their gun. Even if you include full time criminals and suicides, that still means basically 0.001% of fire arms are used to kill someone every day year. Most gun owners are decent people that want to protect themselves, not use it to cause hard to the innocent.
- brenns10 3y ago
  If anything, that statistic (roughly one per person) doesn't inspire confidence. The correct takeaway isn't "wow, so few of the guns in America are used to kill people." It's "wow, there are so many guns that anybody can have one, regardless of whether they are fit to."
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    We don't tell people if they have the right to reproduce, and we shouldn't tell people if they have the right to protect themselves.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      Your insistence on a right to a gun for self-protection comes at the cost of others using their right to a gun for crime. If nobody had guns, you wouldn't need to a gun to protect yourself from someone else with a gun. The problem of course is that the genie is already out of the bottle. We can't take the guns away, they're all over the place in the USA already. Even if the Second Amendment was repealed, all that would happen is that only criminals would have guns. We're fucked and there's no solution.
      - talldatethrow 3y ago
        Yes, you still need a gun even if the criminal only has a knife or a baseball bat. You will not win with someone with those tools. And no woman will win even if she has the same knife or bat. So yes, women need guns.

DiggyJohnson 3y ago

It seems like you’re the one that hasn’t been here. That’s a shocking number of gun related incidents in the GP. Seems like accessing TV/internet must be an issue like road rage that brings out the absolute worst in people. People don’t go around popping shots at technicians or waving their weapons around in the US.

noduerme 3y ago
I'd be interested to know what state they were working in.
- cutemonster 3y ago
  If you work as a cable technician, 6 customers a day, that's around 2000 in a year. If 1 in 100 is mentally ill, in a bad mood (TV broken!) and with a gun ... Maybe there's some selection bias: You'll tend to meet angry people, who are more dumb (couldn't fix the problem themselves?)? Maybe in any weapon loving place, a job where you visit lots of people at their homes and help fixing something that's broken, is mildly dangerous?
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Especially if you’re disconnecting service - I dare say the repo tow truck drivers encounter MANY more gun incidents than the average AAA tow truck driver. However I suspect the repo company allows its employees (or they’re self-employed) to carry in retaliation - I strongly suspect that the cable companies don’t allow their repairmen to pack heat. It’s like the thin bread line - pizza delivery is more dangerous than being a cop.
    - jollyllama 3y ago
      >However I suspect the repo company allows its employees (or they’re self-employed) to carry in retaliation I doubt it. That'd be a huge liability.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        Dig into it further; it's been one of the "qualifying reasons" for some of the states with the hardest-to-get CCW permits. Remember that repo companies are often incredibly small single-person "companies" contracted out.
kelnos 3y ago
> People don’t go around popping shots at technicians or waving their weapons around in the US. I think that's highly dependent on where in the US, and what kind of neighborhoods and people these technicians are working in. The idea that such places exist in the US does not surprise me in the least. But at the same time, there are certainly places in the US where the majority of gun owners do handle their firearms responsibly.
mrguyorama 3y ago
Nearly every cable technician has these stories. A lot of what cable technicians do is go to a house to disconnect for non-payment. These people are rarely well off, and are often a subset of the worst of the worst people in the country. Cable technicians can tell you stories of honest to goodness nazis, terrifyingly mentally broken people, lunatics who think they should be able to shoot anyone stepping foot on their property, etc. Basically if there is a person who is shitty in any way, they probably won't pay their cable and the technician is going to get to meet them. My brother is an avid gun "advocate" (nut), but he still wasn't happy being threatened with guns from yokels who don't like paying bills.

noduerme 3y ago

In fairness, everyone I know in the US who owns firearms - which is basically everyone I know here - takes safety and knowledge of the laws around storing/carrying/brandishing/firing them very seriously. But the sheer scale of the US population and the absolute number of guns is just difficult to conceive of from a European perspective. We have something like 60 privately owned guns in this country for every person in the Czech Republic. So even if only 1% of our gun-owning population were irresponsible or criminal with them, it would still add up to a lot of deaths every day.

kelnos 3y ago
Same, but I suspect there's a bit of selection bias going on there in both our cases. I just don't think I'd be able to sustain a friendship with the kind of person who owns guns and handles them irresponsibly, and I expect the same might be true of you.
- bombcar 3y ago
  You’re spot on - everyone who I know who “does gun” has an extremely hostile reaction to people who handle them irresponsibly. And those people are often irresponsible in many other ways, too.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Except everyone who "has a hostile reaction to people who handle guns irresponsibly" has a story of a range or person they know who does exactly that, and their response is simply to stay away, instead of narcing on them and making the community safer at the expense of being a tattle tale. So there are plenty of people who call themselves "responsible gun owners" but turn a complete blind eye to bad behavior. Or they will keep a loaded gun in their bedroom for home defense, something that is outright NOT responsible gun owner behavior, yet is the primary cited reason people own guns in the US.
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
I guess that seems reasonable, but now it makes me wonder about the graph - it can't be that the people who take gun ownership and security safety only know people who do likewise - how many people who take these matters seriously still have friends they hang out with who take it less seriously. Why? Well bad apples and stuff, it's hard to believe perfect discipline is maintained when some of those around you have less than perfect discipline. It seems like a question that one could probably get pretty close to answering (although not perfect).

wkat4242 3y ago

[flagged]

kube-system 3y ago
It is impossible to lump all US gun owners into a single stereotype, when a third of Americans own one. Any chunk of the population that large includes people of all kinds. In my experience, the people who are most responsible are the ones who you don't even know own guns, because they keep them locked up and out of sight.
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
[dead]
mrguyorama 3y ago
[flagged]

talldatethrow 3y ago

There are over 300 million fire arms in the US. Yet other than criminals shooting rivals, and people commiting suicide, almost no one uses their gun. Even if you include full time criminals and suicides, that still means basically 0.001% of fire arms are used to kill someone every day year. Most gun owners are decent people that want to protect themselves, not use it to cause hard to the innocent.

brenns10 3y ago
If anything, that statistic (roughly one per person) doesn't inspire confidence. The correct takeaway isn't "wow, so few of the guns in America are used to kill people." It's "wow, there are so many guns that anybody can have one, regardless of whether they are fit to."
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  We don't tell people if they have the right to reproduce, and we shouldn't tell people if they have the right to protect themselves.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    Your insistence on a right to a gun for self-protection comes at the cost of others using their right to a gun for crime. If nobody had guns, you wouldn't need to a gun to protect yourself from someone else with a gun. The problem of course is that the genie is already out of the bottle. We can't take the guns away, they're all over the place in the USA already. Even if the Second Amendment was repealed, all that would happen is that only criminals would have guns. We're fucked and there's no solution.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Yes, you still need a gun even if the criminal only has a knife or a baseball bat. You will not win with someone with those tools. And no woman will win even if she has the same knife or bat. So yes, women need guns.