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>>Office workers are not going back to the office. I am not seeing this. Major companies are forcing the issue, and employee can pound their refusal all they

>>Office workers are not going back to the office. I am not seeing this. Major companies are forcing the issue, and employee can pound their refusal all they want but at the end of the day I think we not going to see a normal fully remote work force. At best you are going to see a hybrid where you get 2 or 3 days a week of WFH, and the balance in the office. Further from personal experience I somewhat agree with the management because I have seen LOTS of abuse of WFH from employees.

tigeroil 3y ago
At first I was concerned about abuse of WFH by employees too, but then I realised, people in the office often aren't particularly productive either. From my own team, if I had to guess, the actual number of productive hours are similar. Granted, I think it probably varies dramatically by company / team, and I get the impression that some places take WFH much less seriously than we do (as in, not goofing off).
- xhkkffbf 3y ago
  Absolutely. Everyone in my office is pretty considerate, but all it takes is one pair of people in the bullpen and the quiet is gone. We all get to listen to the discussion. When I first joined, I learned a ton by eavesdropping. Now it just stops my workflow by distracting me. I'm easily 10 times more productive at home.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  For us it varies dramatically by team, but the problem is a WFH policy needs to be company wide for the most part. All it takes is for a few teams to cause a problem for everyone. >>people in the office often aren't particularly productive either. Some of that depends on how you define "productive", having non-work related conversations while in the work place may not be "productive" but it is team building Watching netflix, or doing your laundry when you should be working on a report is neither team building or "productive" Further lots of informal conversations are how many many many many business decisions are made, and how lots of information flows through a company. So many times I have been made aware of new projects, changes, or other things happening in the company simply because I happened to see someone in the hall and they happen to mention it... That would never happen on a formal call. meeting, etc in a fully remote environment.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Those hallway conversations are less productive compared to someone doing laundry while thinking about how they will approach issues. Those hallway conversations are wasted time. You should be at your desk doing your assigned working not socializing. Corporate team building is a guided exercise run by experts not doing work hours Informal meetings exclude stakeholders and don't allow for documentation. Informal meetings are duct tape over process issues.
    - phpisthebest 3y ago
      >>Those hallway conversations are less productive compared to someone doing laundry while thinking about how they will approach issues. No not really, as you have clearly misunderstood the point I was making. It is not about brainstorming how to solve a problem. >> Corporate team building is a guided exercise run by experts I really hope that is sarcasm.
  - willio58 3y ago
    This is it. I’ve actually found it’s down to the discipline, like our tech team is fully remote and that works super well even though the sales team is in-office. Not only is our tech team fully remote, we’re spread out in the US so there’s no small part of our team that’s more often meeting up in person to work.
r3trohack3r 3y ago
Work from office is absurdly expensive for society. 5/7 of the days, relocating an entire city worth of knowledge workers across town to a computer screen is fairly nonsensical. You force everyone to live within a radius of economic hubs if they want job mobility, or you have to be comfortable relocating your family every N years for upward mobility in your career (or take the career hit, wait for internal promotions, and risk the company folding). It’s socially not great. It’s economically not great. It’s environmentally not great. Working from the office is just all around not great. Speaking personally, I live in a good community, with a good quality of life, a good school district, I can afford a good home here, and I can provide for my family. I’ve setup roots and intend to raise my kids to adulthood in this house. I’d be surprised if anyone could afford a competitive package that would convince me to relocate my family, pulling my kids out of school, selling my home, and paying the toll of a daily commute. The rest of my career is remote. Companies can do hybrid. They can return to office. They can do whatever they want. Unless they support full remote, I’m not part of their talent pool. I know many people who think this way. And that number is growing.
- willio58 3y ago
  Yeah it’s plain silly. As a remote worker for going on 3 years, I can’t ever see myself going back to a commute. You could double my salary and I wouldn’t do it..
- unforeseen9991 3y ago
  Yep, I don't care what they do. I've been remote for 7 years now, I made it work before COVID, now it's like playing on super easy mode. My Dad was a work from home pioneer, from back in the early 90's. We got all the latest modem and other tech growing up. If he could make it work with a 2400 baud modem, we can make it work for pretty much every office job.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  >>I’m not part of their talent pool. .. I know many people who think this way. And that number is growing. you enjoy that freedom due to low unemployment, and stable(ish) economy currently. Unfortunately the fundamentals of the economy are not sound right now, and very likely we will start seeing companies fold, and unemployment numbers go up. It is very easy to have a hard stance on fully remote when you have 2 jobs for every employee on the market... if that flips I have a feeling peoples demands will change.
engineer_22 3y ago
The office complex I work in was hard hit by COVID and still hasn't recovered. It's a AA-prime commercial ghost town.

tigeroil 3y ago

At first I was concerned about abuse of WFH by employees too, but then I realised, people in the office often aren't particularly productive either. From my own team, if I had to guess, the actual number of productive hours are similar. Granted, I think it probably varies dramatically by company / team, and I get the impression that some places take WFH much less seriously than we do (as in, not goofing off).

xhkkffbf 3y ago
Absolutely. Everyone in my office is pretty considerate, but all it takes is one pair of people in the bullpen and the quiet is gone. We all get to listen to the discussion. When I first joined, I learned a ton by eavesdropping. Now it just stops my workflow by distracting me. I'm easily 10 times more productive at home.
phpisthebest 3y ago
For us it varies dramatically by team, but the problem is a WFH policy needs to be company wide for the most part. All it takes is for a few teams to cause a problem for everyone. >>people in the office often aren't particularly productive either. Some of that depends on how you define "productive", having non-work related conversations while in the work place may not be "productive" but it is team building Watching netflix, or doing your laundry when you should be working on a report is neither team building or "productive" Further lots of informal conversations are how many many many many business decisions are made, and how lots of information flows through a company. So many times I have been made aware of new projects, changes, or other things happening in the company simply because I happened to see someone in the hall and they happen to mention it... That would never happen on a formal call. meeting, etc in a fully remote environment.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Those hallway conversations are less productive compared to someone doing laundry while thinking about how they will approach issues. Those hallway conversations are wasted time. You should be at your desk doing your assigned working not socializing. Corporate team building is a guided exercise run by experts not doing work hours Informal meetings exclude stakeholders and don't allow for documentation. Informal meetings are duct tape over process issues.
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    >>Those hallway conversations are less productive compared to someone doing laundry while thinking about how they will approach issues. No not really, as you have clearly misunderstood the point I was making. It is not about brainstorming how to solve a problem. >> Corporate team building is a guided exercise run by experts I really hope that is sarcasm.
- willio58 3y ago
  This is it. I’ve actually found it’s down to the discipline, like our tech team is fully remote and that works super well even though the sales team is in-office. Not only is our tech team fully remote, we’re spread out in the US so there’s no small part of our team that’s more often meeting up in person to work.

r3trohack3r 3y ago

Work from office is absurdly expensive for society. 5/7 of the days, relocating an entire city worth of knowledge workers across town to a computer screen is fairly nonsensical. You force everyone to live within a radius of economic hubs if they want job mobility, or you have to be comfortable relocating your family every N years for upward mobility in your career (or take the career hit, wait for internal promotions, and risk the company folding). It’s socially not great. It’s economically not great. It’s environmentally not great. Working from the office is just all around not great. Speaking personally, I live in a good community, with a good quality of life, a good school district, I can afford a good home here, and I can provide for my family. I’ve setup roots and intend to raise my kids to adulthood in this house. I’d be surprised if anyone could afford a competitive package that would convince me to relocate my family, pulling my kids out of school, selling my home, and paying the toll of a daily commute. The rest of my career is remote. Companies can do hybrid. They can return to office. They can do whatever they want. Unless they support full remote, I’m not part of their talent pool. I know many people who think this way. And that number is growing.

willio58 3y ago
Yeah it’s plain silly. As a remote worker for going on 3 years, I can’t ever see myself going back to a commute. You could double my salary and I wouldn’t do it..
unforeseen9991 3y ago
Yep, I don't care what they do. I've been remote for 7 years now, I made it work before COVID, now it's like playing on super easy mode. My Dad was a work from home pioneer, from back in the early 90's. We got all the latest modem and other tech growing up. If he could make it work with a 2400 baud modem, we can make it work for pretty much every office job.
phpisthebest 3y ago
>>I’m not part of their talent pool. .. I know many people who think this way. And that number is growing. you enjoy that freedom due to low unemployment, and stable(ish) economy currently. Unfortunately the fundamentals of the economy are not sound right now, and very likely we will start seeing companies fold, and unemployment numbers go up. It is very easy to have a hard stance on fully remote when you have 2 jobs for every employee on the market... if that flips I have a feeling peoples demands will change.

engineer_22 3y ago

The office complex I work in was hard hit by COVID and still hasn't recovered. It's a AA-prime commercial ghost town.