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All laptops become e-waste, why are chromebooks different? They were made with low specs, presumably they become obsolete sooner. But then again, I doubt most l

All laptops become e-waste, why are chromebooks different? They were made with low specs, presumably they become obsolete sooner. But then again, I doubt most laptop users have their laptop more than 3 years.

timw4mail 3y ago
They definitely could have more life than the duration of the ChromeOS updates. It's an arbitrary date, not performance-based at all.
zbrozek 3y ago
That seems short to me. I build a new desktop approximately every 8 years and buy a new laptop every 5-6.
jwells89 3y ago
Most other laptops, even low end ones, can have new life breathed into them as laptops with a lightweight Linux distribution or even take on entirely new uses like a Plex/Kodi box or retro emulator box hooked up to the TV, power efficient file server, smart home control hub, etc — basically anything one might use a Pi for, an old laptop can do just as well or better. This is impractical on most Chromebooks because of how locked into Chrome OS they are. They're more like cheap Android phones with locked bootloaders than they are proper laptops.
amatecha 3y ago
Coincidentally I'm about 2.5 years into daily-driving a ThinkPad X230 (made in 2012/2013 or so), which I bought secondhand and am running OpenBSD on. Computers could be used a lot longer than they typically are. This one's now surpassing 10 years :) Relevant: "how and why I stopped buying new laptops" https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stopped-buying-new-laptops.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stop...
- jwells89 3y ago
  Honestly the only thing stopping me from toting around an old low value laptop is their battery life, which is generally awful. The modern web making their fans get angry and noisy also isn’t great, and barrel jack PSUs are a pain compared to USB-C PD. It’d be cool if there were efforts to sell kits that allow users to outfit old laptops with higher-capacity (but not physically larger) batteries, quieter cooling, and USB-PD.
  - amatecha 3y ago
    Yeah for sure, it's frustrating how there aren't readily-available OEM-quality aftermarket batteries available for older laptops. On the upside as for the barrel jack connectors, you can often get multi-connector AC adapters even with variable voltage output switches. My goal is to figure out a singular solar-charged power source for all my portable devices with built-in batteries, to hopefully have some kind of device-agnostic solution, longer-term... Quite the hassle to figure it all out though!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- joshspankit 3y ago
  Any CPU made around or after the time of the Core 2 Duo can still be a perfectly serviceable main computer. Back in the 90s and 00s older CPUs were literally too slow but we passed the MVP threshold around the C2D and now they’re all pretty solid.
rzzzt 3y ago
There is a cut-off date after which a model does not receive any further updates, and the countdown starts with the first released unit: https://www.theregister.com/2019/08/22/buying_a_chromebook_dont_forget_to_check_when_it_expires/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/08/22/buying_a_chromebook_d... It is unfortunate if you get yours eg. one year before the end of the prescribed lifecycle.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
There's a difference between "this will eventually stop being usable" and "we enforced a hard cutoff for software updates, including security patches, which artificially forced a device to stop being usable". I'm typing this on a decade-old laptop that's perfectly good even though its manufacturer has long-since given up on it, precisely because it just keeps getting software updates regardless (AIUI, even Windows would still support it, so a normal user would be fine too).
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  My understanding is that the cutoff is determined by the component manufacturers refusing to provide firmware updates. Microsoft does not directly support all hardware configurations, and manufacturers have more incentive to support Windows/general purpose hardware long-term. ChromeOS has much lower market share so manufacturers have no incentive beyond what Google can incentivize monetarily (i.e., pay them to do it at a loss).
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    It's also a matter of decoupling; a machine running Windows (for example) might have ancient firmware, but at least it can run a current version of Chrome and Windows, which means that it degrades gracefully.
- INTPenis 3y ago
  You're not most laptop users though. I try to take care of my hardware, even though I've been averaging 1 laptop every 3 years the past 15. I have friends with old thinkpads too, but I don't think they represent most laptop users. So if a school buys 100 thinkpads, and 100 chromebooks, how long do you think they will last? They will all become e-waste sooner or later, and most likely sooner in an education environment where they're being lent out to pupils. There is a bigger problem at play here, a massive culture of consumption. I fail to see how pointing the finger at chromebooks specifically is more than a distraction.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
phpisthebest 3y ago
>>I doubt most laptop users have their laptop more than 3 years. More and more companies are moving to 4 and 5 year replacement cycle. The average today for my company is 4.5 years between replacement laptops for the average employee. For desktops it is 7-8 with some going to 10 years for replacements. Then they are wiped and given to employee's who continue to use them for many more years. I have given my parents one of these both are still using it, one of which was ironically reimaged from Win7 to CloudReady (now called ChomeOS Flex) and it is still going strong today more than 10 years after its manufacture date.
jzb 3y ago
I tend to get new machines pretty often, but I’m also using old machines for 7-10 years. OldNew laptop becomes the bedroom/backup laptop. Bedroom laptop becomes couch surfing laptop. Or a machine gets converted to Plex duty, etc. Also I hand down machines to my kids, donate to kids at school, etc.
ljm 3y ago
Chromebooks are different because they were created by Google and you are an absolute fool to think you will get long term support from them. Or any support at all. Google has never, ever been in the business of support. I’m surprised that the mention of Google hasn’t yet tarnished a brand. They’re just a big tech incumbent.

timw4mail 3y ago

They definitely could have more life than the duration of the ChromeOS updates. It's an arbitrary date, not performance-based at all.

zbrozek 3y ago

That seems short to me. I build a new desktop approximately every 8 years and buy a new laptop every 5-6.

jwells89 3y ago

Most other laptops, even low end ones, can have new life breathed into them as laptops with a lightweight Linux distribution or even take on entirely new uses like a Plex/Kodi box or retro emulator box hooked up to the TV, power efficient file server, smart home control hub, etc — basically anything one might use a Pi for, an old laptop can do just as well or better. This is impractical on most Chromebooks because of how locked into Chrome OS they are. They're more like cheap Android phones with locked bootloaders than they are proper laptops.

amatecha 3y ago

Coincidentally I'm about 2.5 years into daily-driving a ThinkPad X230 (made in 2012/2013 or so), which I bought secondhand and am running OpenBSD on. Computers could be used a lot longer than they typically are. This one's now surpassing 10 years :) Relevant: "how and why I stopped buying new laptops" https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stopped-buying-new-laptops.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stop...

jwells89 3y ago
Honestly the only thing stopping me from toting around an old low value laptop is their battery life, which is generally awful. The modern web making their fans get angry and noisy also isn’t great, and barrel jack PSUs are a pain compared to USB-C PD. It’d be cool if there were efforts to sell kits that allow users to outfit old laptops with higher-capacity (but not physically larger) batteries, quieter cooling, and USB-PD.
- amatecha 3y ago
  Yeah for sure, it's frustrating how there aren't readily-available OEM-quality aftermarket batteries available for older laptops. On the upside as for the barrel jack connectors, you can often get multi-connector AC adapters even with variable voltage output switches. My goal is to figure out a singular solar-charged power source for all my portable devices with built-in batteries, to hopefully have some kind of device-agnostic solution, longer-term... Quite the hassle to figure it all out though!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
joshspankit 3y ago
Any CPU made around or after the time of the Core 2 Duo can still be a perfectly serviceable main computer. Back in the 90s and 00s older CPUs were literally too slow but we passed the MVP threshold around the C2D and now they’re all pretty solid.

rzzzt 3y ago

There is a cut-off date after which a model does not receive any further updates, and the countdown starts with the first released unit: https://www.theregister.com/2019/08/22/buying_a_chromebook_dont_forget_to_check_when_it_expires/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/08/22/buying_a_chromebook_d... It is unfortunate if you get yours eg. one year before the end of the prescribed lifecycle.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

There's a difference between "this will eventually stop being usable" and "we enforced a hard cutoff for software updates, including security patches, which artificially forced a device to stop being usable". I'm typing this on a decade-old laptop that's perfectly good even though its manufacturer has long-since given up on it, precisely because it just keeps getting software updates regardless (AIUI, even Windows would still support it, so a normal user would be fine too).

Ferret7446 3y ago
My understanding is that the cutoff is determined by the component manufacturers refusing to provide firmware updates. Microsoft does not directly support all hardware configurations, and manufacturers have more incentive to support Windows/general purpose hardware long-term. ChromeOS has much lower market share so manufacturers have no incentive beyond what Google can incentivize monetarily (i.e., pay them to do it at a loss).
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  It's also a matter of decoupling; a machine running Windows (for example) might have ancient firmware, but at least it can run a current version of Chrome and Windows, which means that it degrades gracefully.
INTPenis 3y ago
You're not most laptop users though. I try to take care of my hardware, even though I've been averaging 1 laptop every 3 years the past 15. I have friends with old thinkpads too, but I don't think they represent most laptop users. So if a school buys 100 thinkpads, and 100 chromebooks, how long do you think they will last? They will all become e-waste sooner or later, and most likely sooner in an education environment where they're being lent out to pupils. There is a bigger problem at play here, a massive culture of consumption. I fail to see how pointing the finger at chromebooks specifically is more than a distraction.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

phpisthebest 3y ago

>>I doubt most laptop users have their laptop more than 3 years. More and more companies are moving to 4 and 5 year replacement cycle. The average today for my company is 4.5 years between replacement laptops for the average employee. For desktops it is 7-8 with some going to 10 years for replacements. Then they are wiped and given to employee's who continue to use them for many more years. I have given my parents one of these both are still using it, one of which was ironically reimaged from Win7 to CloudReady (now called ChomeOS Flex) and it is still going strong today more than 10 years after its manufacture date.

jzb 3y ago

I tend to get new machines pretty often, but I’m also using old machines for 7-10 years. OldNew laptop becomes the bedroom/backup laptop. Bedroom laptop becomes couch surfing laptop. Or a machine gets converted to Plex duty, etc. Also I hand down machines to my kids, donate to kids at school, etc.

ljm 3y ago

Chromebooks are different because they were created by Google and you are an absolute fool to think you will get long term support from them. Or any support at all. Google has never, ever been in the business of support. I’m surprised that the mention of Google hasn’t yet tarnished a brand. They’re just a big tech incumbent.