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In the next 15 years? Ember.js and Angular. And I wouldn't call React a framework, it's a view library. Let me explain. While there was a new React router c

In the next 15 years? Ember.js and Angular. And I wouldn't call React a framework, it's a view library. Let me explain. While there was a new React router coming out every week in early 2010s, some teams picked a batteries included framework such as Ember.js and focused on productivity and shipping rather than bikeshedding which router to use or what folder structure to have. And those teams have been upgrading their apps for over a decade since the early Ember.js versions (some even upgraded from before Ember was forked from Apple's SproutCore). Intercom swears by it https://www.intercom.com/blog/evolution-of-ember-at-intercom/ https://www.intercom.com/blog/evolution-of-ember-at-intercom... So do some Ember apps at Apple, LinkedIn, Microsoft and Heroku that have been going through this journey for years. And they will carry on. There's a new and faster rendering library out on the block? That's easy. We'll just replace the rendering engine. That's what Ember.js did in mid-late 2010s with Glimmer.js, where they dropped-in a complete replacement of Ember.js rendering engine with full backwards compatibility which was beating React in some benchmarks. https://auth0.com/blog/face-off-virtual-dom-vs-incremental-dom-vs-glimmer/ https://auth0.com/blog/face-off-virtual-dom-vs-incremental-d... So frameworks such as Ember.js, Ruby on Rails and others will still be there in 15 years, alive, with people interested in productivity rather than tinkering keeping them fresh and alive. View libraries? Yes, but in the same sense jQuery is today. It's there, it's being patched, thousands of sites use it, but there'll be better ways to do it.

wetpaws 3y ago
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evilduck 3y ago
There’s been more effort in the Ember community poured into telling us it’s not dead yet than into doing anything relevant outside the Ember community in the last decade. Might as well have said Dojo and Knockout, it would have meant the same thing.
- alternatex 3y ago
  As someone who loved Knockout when the only alternative was jQuery, I can't wait for it to die. Same for jQuery and any other library that we've found better alternatives for. I'm surprised by the number of people swearing by React as if it's some holy grail of UI technology that will never die. Popularity is meaningful, but only for a while.
  - evilduck 3y ago
    I don’t think React is the final way to do web development but there are tangible benefits to a large community of users that aging competitors want to pretend don’t exist. Just like there used to be a jQuery plugin for anything you wanted, there’s probably a similar React solution for anything you want. Outside of React or Vue you’re often reinventing a wheel. It’s doable but not productive.
- HatchedLake721 3y ago
  It's as dead as Ruby on Rails. Neither will ever be popular. Because it's always be easier to learn and spin-up an Express.js or any front-end library with a single index.html and tinker away. > than into doing anything relevant outside the Ember community in the last decade. Quite dishonest, and not sure why you're turning this into measuring exercise, so I won't bite. > Might as well have said Dojo and Knockout, it would have meant the same thing. Someone should tell Apple, HashiCorp, DigitalOcean and Microsoft they're not cool anymore releasing new stuff in Ember.js, must pick a new JavaScript framework of the year!
  - evilduck 3y ago
    Ember and Rails were both extremely popular at one time. They both went from web development darlings to being legacy products to support. There are still fanatics for both, but there are VB6 fanatics to this day too. Fanatics don't mean anything. If you're going to call me a liar though you need to do better. What has Ember done but continually play catch up for years and years on end? Here, go look yourself: https://github.com/emberjs/ember.js/releases https://github.com/emberjs/ember.js/releases How many years do you have to scroll back to find anything that influenced anything outside of Ember? The last influential ideas might have been EmberObject to fill gaps in the Javascript language before ES6 became a thing, or the idea of Ember Data as a front end opinionated ORM, though that has mixed results depending on your backend team's buy in. > Someone should tell Apple, HashiCorp, DigitalOcean and Microsoft they're not cool anymore releasing new stuff in Ember.js, must pick a new JavaScript framework of the year! Or I can just look at what front end jobs these companies are posting: https://www.indeed.com/q-apple-web-developer-jobs.html?vjk=be2dcf684168c1c4 https://www.indeed.com/q-apple-web-developer-jobs.html?vjk=b... https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=hashicorp+front+end&l=&vjk=90ca917a547bd024 https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=hashicorp+front+end&l=&vjk=90c... https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Microsoft+web+development&l=&sc=0fcckey%3Ae3a48f8a4a788271%2Cq%3Aweb+development%3B&vjk=0f92ad74c5623397 https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Microsoft+web+development&l=&s... and plainly see that they're not Ember, they're entirely React. I can find ONE mention of Ember from your company list, and it's a nice-to-have skill for a backend role: https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=7751f4d47fbf9760&tk=1h9hc6nnfk54n800&from=serp&vjs=3 https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=7751f4d47fbf9760&tk=1h9hc6... If we're going to suggest any dishonesty is taking place, it would be the implication that these companies are Ember shops and not just dealing with lamentable choices that happen to still be in production and too costly to replace.

wetpaws 3y ago

[dead]

evilduck 3y ago

There’s been more effort in the Ember community poured into telling us it’s not dead yet than into doing anything relevant outside the Ember community in the last decade. Might as well have said Dojo and Knockout, it would have meant the same thing.

alternatex 3y ago
As someone who loved Knockout when the only alternative was jQuery, I can't wait for it to die. Same for jQuery and any other library that we've found better alternatives for. I'm surprised by the number of people swearing by React as if it's some holy grail of UI technology that will never die. Popularity is meaningful, but only for a while.
- evilduck 3y ago
  I don’t think React is the final way to do web development but there are tangible benefits to a large community of users that aging competitors want to pretend don’t exist. Just like there used to be a jQuery plugin for anything you wanted, there’s probably a similar React solution for anything you want. Outside of React or Vue you’re often reinventing a wheel. It’s doable but not productive.
HatchedLake721 3y ago
It's as dead as Ruby on Rails. Neither will ever be popular. Because it's always be easier to learn and spin-up an Express.js or any front-end library with a single index.html and tinker away. > than into doing anything relevant outside the Ember community in the last decade. Quite dishonest, and not sure why you're turning this into measuring exercise, so I won't bite. > Might as well have said Dojo and Knockout, it would have meant the same thing. Someone should tell Apple, HashiCorp, DigitalOcean and Microsoft they're not cool anymore releasing new stuff in Ember.js, must pick a new JavaScript framework of the year!
- evilduck 3y ago
  Ember and Rails were both extremely popular at one time. They both went from web development darlings to being legacy products to support. There are still fanatics for both, but there are VB6 fanatics to this day too. Fanatics don't mean anything. If you're going to call me a liar though you need to do better. What has Ember done but continually play catch up for years and years on end? Here, go look yourself: https://github.com/emberjs/ember.js/releases https://github.com/emberjs/ember.js/releases How many years do you have to scroll back to find anything that influenced anything outside of Ember? The last influential ideas might have been EmberObject to fill gaps in the Javascript language before ES6 became a thing, or the idea of Ember Data as a front end opinionated ORM, though that has mixed results depending on your backend team's buy in. > Someone should tell Apple, HashiCorp, DigitalOcean and Microsoft they're not cool anymore releasing new stuff in Ember.js, must pick a new JavaScript framework of the year! Or I can just look at what front end jobs these companies are posting: https://www.indeed.com/q-apple-web-developer-jobs.html?vjk=be2dcf684168c1c4 https://www.indeed.com/q-apple-web-developer-jobs.html?vjk=b... https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=hashicorp+front+end&l=&vjk=90ca917a547bd024 https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=hashicorp+front+end&l=&vjk=90c... https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Microsoft+web+development&l=&sc=0fcckey%3Ae3a48f8a4a788271%2Cq%3Aweb+development%3B&vjk=0f92ad74c5623397 https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Microsoft+web+development&l=&s... and plainly see that they're not Ember, they're entirely React. I can find ONE mention of Ember from your company list, and it's a nice-to-have skill for a backend role: https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=7751f4d47fbf9760&tk=1h9hc6nnfk54n800&from=serp&vjs=3 https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=7751f4d47fbf9760&tk=1h9hc6... If we're going to suggest any dishonesty is taking place, it would be the implication that these companies are Ember shops and not just dealing with lamentable choices that happen to still be in production and too costly to replace.