4 ms·

Slavery was legal then.

by Mobil1 3y ago

mattl 3y ago
Doesn’t make it okay.
- imchillyb 3y ago
  Judging the past without context is akin to judging your neighbor through a -blind- third party’s verbal description. Meaningless. Placing current societal norms on the past is also meaningless. Understanding is only achieved through proper context, research, and discussion. You’ve chosen none of these.
  - thefaux 3y ago
    We don't have to condemn Jefferson as a man to acknowledge that his thinking was influenced by his position as a land owning slave owner. This isn't some minor detail. It is essential to understanding his worldview. I actually think Jefferson had many quite brilliant insights but much of his thought is tainted by his belief in racial hierarchy. Knowing the source and the context, I would like to be careful about lifting up the thought of figures like Jefferson without carefully considering the subtext.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      Plenty of philosophers and other learned men of past centuries were chattel-slave owners or ruled serfs. But to claim about some non-slave-involving practice that their slaveowning is “essential to understand their worldview”, is not productive. It tells us little about the merits of the practice in question, and on an internet forum it allows parties to derail the conversation towards a political theme for prestige points.
    - devilbunny 3y ago
      I'm quite certain it influenced his thinking. I fail to see how that's reflected in his "how to have a good dinner party" ideas, other than that the servants bringing the food to a southern US dinner party would have been enslaved, and the ones bringing them to a northern US or UK dinner party would have been free. They wouldn't have been invited to chime in in most cases. Kind of an unavoidable consequence of having servants at all. Even at a self-service potluck, someone has to provide the utensils, the drinks, the food refills, and the cleanup. Usually someone volunteers for that role because it's easier for them than making a dish, and it is contributing to the party.
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  You're using a website and internet infrastructure that were built on the backs of slave labor. If you're worried enough that a conversational concept was named held humans as property to bail, you should probably be boycotting this too.
- sys32768 3y ago
  To become more enlightened about Jefferson and slavery and his times, this episode from 2006 of The Thomas Jefferson Hour by Jefferson scholar Clay Jenkinson tackles it in depth: https://jeffersonhour.bandcamp.com/track/615-slavery https://jeffersonhour.bandcamp.com/track/615-slavery

Slavery was legal then.

by Mobil1 3y ago

Slavery was legal then.

mattl 3y ago

Doesn’t make it okay.

imchillyb 3y ago
Judging the past without context is akin to judging your neighbor through a -blind- third party’s verbal description. Meaningless. Placing current societal norms on the past is also meaningless. Understanding is only achieved through proper context, research, and discussion. You’ve chosen none of these.
- thefaux 3y ago
  We don't have to condemn Jefferson as a man to acknowledge that his thinking was influenced by his position as a land owning slave owner. This isn't some minor detail. It is essential to understanding his worldview. I actually think Jefferson had many quite brilliant insights but much of his thought is tainted by his belief in racial hierarchy. Knowing the source and the context, I would like to be careful about lifting up the thought of figures like Jefferson without carefully considering the subtext.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    Plenty of philosophers and other learned men of past centuries were chattel-slave owners or ruled serfs. But to claim about some non-slave-involving practice that their slaveowning is “essential to understand their worldview”, is not productive. It tells us little about the merits of the practice in question, and on an internet forum it allows parties to derail the conversation towards a political theme for prestige points.
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    I'm quite certain it influenced his thinking. I fail to see how that's reflected in his "how to have a good dinner party" ideas, other than that the servants bringing the food to a southern US dinner party would have been enslaved, and the ones bringing them to a northern US or UK dinner party would have been free. They wouldn't have been invited to chime in in most cases. Kind of an unavoidable consequence of having servants at all. Even at a self-service potluck, someone has to provide the utensils, the drinks, the food refills, and the cleanup. Usually someone volunteers for that role because it's easier for them than making a dish, and it is contributing to the party.
InitialLastName 3y ago
You're using a website and internet infrastructure that were built on the backs of slave labor. If you're worried enough that a conversational concept was named held humans as property to bail, you should probably be boycotting this too.
sys32768 3y ago
To become more enlightened about Jefferson and slavery and his times, this episode from 2006 of The Thomas Jefferson Hour by Jefferson scholar Clay Jenkinson tackles it in depth: https://jeffersonhour.bandcamp.com/track/615-slavery https://jeffersonhour.bandcamp.com/track/615-slavery