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I sorta get it-- Svelte is simpler than React (at least at face value). What I don't get is why as an industry we are hung up on this need to do so much with J

I sorta get it-- Svelte is simpler than React (at least at face value). What I don't get is why as an industry we are hung up on this need to do so much with JavaScript. In the end, Svelte is an incremental improvement over the thing that came before it. It will remain so until Svelte++ or whatever comes next. Great... but who cares? I wish we would spend more time thinking through new (or old) solutions to the problem we are solving. It's why HTMX gained some hype... but it's just the beginning.

gochi 3y ago
Shifting the focus from JavaScript to HTML doesn't eradicate the problems. I enjoy HTMX, but I can't stand the current hype cycle regarding it being a revolutionary different take unlike those JS frameworks. You're just winding up doing the exact same thing that caused the React dilemma!
- consoomer 3y ago
  I don't think the answer is shifting focus to HTML. The answer seems to be in relinquishing some control back to the browser, but finding a way to make the experience smoother and add interactivity as needed without handicapping the browser's control in the process.
- recursivedoubts 3y ago
  htmx is a different take in that it moves the state into the hypermedia itself: https://htmx.org/essays/hateoas/ https://htmx.org/essays/hateoas/ that isn't without it's own problems, but it is very different than most JS libs today i expect the hype will die down soon, as the reality of there being no silver bullet sinks in
  - consoomer 3y ago
    I'm not a fan of the htmx take, but it's refreshing to at least hear about other methods than "yet another react/angular/etc".
    - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
      It's a great solution when you don't need a full crazy SPA
_xivi 3y ago
> Svelte is an incremental improvement over the thing that came before it > who cares? I wish we would spend more time thinking through new (or old) solutions to the problem we are solving - What's "the problem"? - How do you classify improvement vs solution? Personally, I think people, in essence, have different problems that's why they create different solutions.
- consoomer 3y ago
  The problem seems to stem from interactivity on the web. Of course, there's a spectrum here... static content pages on one side and games on the other. The problem as it stands today is most web pages are on the static/low interactivity side but use solutions from the other end of the spectrum. People keep reaching for the high interactivity solutions... why? Is it the education systems today pushing people to reach for the hammer they know? Is it the tooling/experience on the other side is so bad people avoid it?

gochi 3y ago

Shifting the focus from JavaScript to HTML doesn't eradicate the problems. I enjoy HTMX, but I can't stand the current hype cycle regarding it being a revolutionary different take unlike those JS frameworks. You're just winding up doing the exact same thing that caused the React dilemma!

consoomer 3y ago
I don't think the answer is shifting focus to HTML. The answer seems to be in relinquishing some control back to the browser, but finding a way to make the experience smoother and add interactivity as needed without handicapping the browser's control in the process.
recursivedoubts 3y ago
htmx is a different take in that it moves the state into the hypermedia itself: https://htmx.org/essays/hateoas/ https://htmx.org/essays/hateoas/ that isn't without it's own problems, but it is very different than most JS libs today i expect the hype will die down soon, as the reality of there being no silver bullet sinks in
- consoomer 3y ago
  I'm not a fan of the htmx take, but it's refreshing to at least hear about other methods than "yet another react/angular/etc".
  - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
    It's a great solution when you don't need a full crazy SPA

_xivi 3y ago

> Svelte is an incremental improvement over the thing that came before it > who cares? I wish we would spend more time thinking through new (or old) solutions to the problem we are solving - What's "the problem"? - How do you classify improvement vs solution? Personally, I think people, in essence, have different problems that's why they create different solutions.

consoomer 3y ago
The problem seems to stem from interactivity on the web. Of course, there's a spectrum here... static content pages on one side and games on the other. The problem as it stands today is most web pages are on the static/low interactivity side but use solutions from the other end of the spectrum. People keep reaching for the high interactivity solutions... why? Is it the education systems today pushing people to reach for the hammer they know? Is it the tooling/experience on the other side is so bad people avoid it?