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I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour
- throwawaysleep 3y ago[flagged]
- bigbacaloa 3y ago[flagged]
- vGPU 3y agoRepurposing your question in your direction.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- monetus 3y agoSelective empathy is a sign that you're not in a good place. Maybe you should join a program. Definitely talk to someone about wanting to hurt people. That isn't good.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago[flagged]
- wudangmonk 3y agodon't see Big Booze having to serve any sort of penalty for addiction treatment, I know a lot more addicts of alcohol than whatever drug is illegal. Jail shouldn't be a business, there shouldn't be an incentive to send people to jail. We want to prevent police, judges, prosecutors from profiting from the kickbacks they might get if they can manage to find ways to send more people to jail.
- pasttense01 3y ago[flagged]
- ranting-moth 3y agoBut then shouldn't the government get the profits instead of a private entity?
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoPrivatize profits. Subsidize losses.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- brianwawok 3y agoSo you are cool with private industry making millions on the back of “captive” slave labor markets for $1 an hour?
- jumpman_miya 3y agoyes
- bdcravens 3y agoOr less - see Texas, where inmates receive no pay for work.
- intrasight 3y agoUNICOR is a wholly owned government corporation not a private company. Average cost to taxpayers per incarcerated person is about $100K. So let them work for free up until that amount. But even if it were private, how ethically is this worse than private companies making billions building weapons of mass destruction? Or platforms of mass surveillance?
- true_religion 3y ago
- pseudotrash 3y agoWhether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one is allowed to work, and how soon, also depends on whether one gets along with the guards. Work also decides if one can afford to fuel a nicotine or caffeine addiction - if not you have to go beg the Russians, Albanians or whoever runs that racket etc to add it to your tab that you can later pay off with interest ... Edit-2: what most don't seem to grasp is that a large percentage point of those inside are usually on the streets in cold countries and rather get locked up than freeze to death. Another sizable percentage are refugees escaping conflict zones and that fell through the cracks of a system that should have given them ptsd treatment. Not everyone inside is there because they deserve doing time.
- Pigalowda 3y ago[flagged]
- bdcravens 3y agoThis doesn't really make for a compelling argument, as it's an appeal to authority without substantiation ("the majority agree with me, so I must be right") Plus, it's a "what if" statement that completely ignores our form of government (ie, the US doesn't have national referendums)
- Pigalowda 3y ago[flagged]
- bdcravens 3y agoActually, most laws aren't in the constitution, but rather, are encoded in laws as voted on by the federal or state legislatures. Our nation doesn't have popular sovereignty; we are based on representatives to presumably propose and vote on laws in our best interests. (Otherwise we likely wouldn't have income tax or speed limits). Remember, there was a time when a large portion of our nation thought owning humans and forcing them to work under inhumane conditions was acceptable. However for this conversation, I'd use the spirit of checks and balances as the rule of law. The legal system has a conflict of interest when it has discretion to incarcerate those it can profit from. I agree with another comment of yours - labor to support the system is ok (since that's fairly self-balancing); labor to profit the prison system isn't.
- Pigalowda 3y agoI don’t really like that prison labor is used for consumer products. However if prisoners would like to be part of voluntary labor units that do outdoor work like tree plants, reservoir digs, and other public good/infrastructure building that would be useful and not competitive to private firms. I’m not sure i care at all about “prison jobs” that require them to clean dishes, prepare their own food, or wash their own clothes. That is a boohoo complaint to me.
- bdcravens 3y agoTexas limits commercial labor to products that are sold or traded with other government entities, so it's a matter of interpretation as to whether that's unfair competition (since those entities would otherwise need to purchase those goods in the free market)
- camel_gopher 3y agoCorruption not competition
- bdcravens 3y agoSome states like Texas don't even pay inmates for work.
- mindslight 3y agoI think this might be better, for similar reasons as why the daycare that started charging a late fee ended up with more late parents (by moving from a social dynamic to a financial one). If forced labor is just part of the sentence, we can still argue over whether that is unjust punishment or not just like we do with the death penalty. But otherwise that's just how it is. Whereas "paying" inmates tens of cents an hour (3% of minimum wage) is a slap in the face from pretending it's some kind of voluntary transaction.
- wizerdrobe 3y agoThat raises a sticky question of how much is enough relative to the cost of their incarceration. From a pure problem-solving standpoint, we could and probably should raise that rate by a few dollars to be put in a trust disbursed upon release to give inmates a better chance at landing some accommodation and runway to find a proper job, such that “sell drugs” doesn’t become an immediate obvious option. Generously, the poor rate of pay seems almost the same situation as the lagging minimum wage rate. It may have once been enough (a long long time ago.) I recall reading Alcatraz inmate autobiographies as a child and recall them leaving a 10 year bank robbery sentence with enough money to find an apartment and a down payment on transportation. Perhaps a better implementation would be $0.25 per hour goes into a canteen fund for goodies and another $4.25 per hour goes into your release trust fund? Still below minimum wage to appease any notion of inmates getting one over on hard work at the bottom rung but a rate that would possible give a chance for a successful restart.
- bdcravens 3y agoAdditionally, the funds could be applied to restitution and fines. Of course given fair wages, there would be outcry from the unincarcerated as to why they can't do those jobs for the state.
- emidln 3y agoIt's a travesty that slavery is still legal in the USA. These slaves also compete against free citizens who would otherwise be employed for these positions. UNICOR isn't just stealing from inmate slaves, it is stealing from average americans who would otherwise be employed by factories making stuff that, by law, must be purchased from a company that makes in America.
- Simulacra 3y agoI am conflicted about prison labor. When I lived in SF I volunteered at Alcatraz and remember the things produced there in the distant past. Everyone has heard of license plates. I think labor for prisoners is a good thing if it produces something good for society. However, in my opinion the conditions in American prisons are awful to bordering inhumane. America's penal system is grossly underfunded rendering most rehabilitation efforts meaningless. When the system is properly funded and managed I think labor will see a very meaningful component of that.
- j0hnyl 3y agoPrison in America is punitive and has nothing to do with rehabilitation.
- troupe 3y ago> My certifications as a flagger and forklift driver have proved incapable of outshining the glaring label of convicted felon that accompanies them on applications. Perhaps the market is behaving irrationally by not valuing convicted felons appropriately. The places that seem to be successful look like they usually make hiring criminals part of their brand like Dave's Killer Bread.
- nullindividual 3y agoThe market should be completely unaware that this person is a felon. Why does the government continue to punish someone after they’ve served their sentence allowing employers to pry into their background?
- Gortal278 3y agoIt is as relevant as people's experience and certifications. Societies laws are not particularly difficult to follow even if you disagree with them, if someone I work has chosen not to follow those laws to a degree that they have been imprisoned by a jury of their peer's I think it is as relevant as their previous roles + educational attainment.