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> Also tue, the Nazis basically started WW2 to murder all the jews. I don't think that's true. It's a stupid point to start a war. Where's the profit for Germa

> Also tue, the Nazis basically started WW2 to murder all the jews. I don't think that's true. It's a stupid point to start a war. Where's the profit for Germany in that? While it's also true that Nazi Germany explicitly set to murder all Russians. There're numerous official Nazi documents confirming that. Most of the population was determined to be killed directly or by causing hunger (by capturing the only lands suitable for agriculture in the South-West of USSR). But since the West in general always considered and continue to consider Russians as subhumans, there's no mention of this fact in western books, movies and articles.

hef19898 3y ago
The Nazis goal of the war was to eradicate all the jews. It was since, at least, Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. It shows in their actions, in how they organized, who got which resources. It was their goal, murdering all jews, and went about it with murderous and frighting efficiency. They only stopped outright murder in has chamber to enslave a portion of people ending up concentrations camps, the vast majority being jews, when Nazi Germany ran into work force issues. It was Speer who convinced Himmler that was necessary, so the Nazis settled for murder through work. No idea what you mean that the Nazis behaviour regarding slaws, not just Russians, isn't talked about in the West. I am in the West, and I defenitely didn't learn about from Russian books. Also, claiming the West sees Russians as sub-human is a strong claim, to put it mildly...
- axioms_End 3y ago
  One issue : Wansee takes place in 1942, that is in the middle of the war. Until now, most camps are "just" concentration (death by labour) camps, and Jews are mostly in the ghettos. Only after Wansee you have start of mass transports to death camps - most people who died in Auschwitz were never inmates there - they were brought from other countries, sorted on ramp and send to death. Not to mention - at that moment camps were already full of people (Auschwitz was started for Poles and Soviet POV). So no, they didn't "stop" with gas chambers - they have inmates in camps and Jews in ghettos (all having to work in one way or the other), and the idea of Final Solution wasn't complete until 1942 (and took place until 1944).
  - hef19898 3y ago
    And the holocaust by bullets pre dates operation Barbarossa. Turned murdering millions of people requires more sophisticated logistics than your average, run of the mill genocide as all tjose done before. Hence Wannsee, the final solution, the extermination camps (of which Auschwitz wasn't one initially). The goal was clear from before the war started so, the means were somewhat less well defined. Edit: As a supply chain and logistics guy myself, the logistics of the holocaust seem to be the only historical occurance the Germans got wartime logistics right. Eichmann was a really good supply chain guy, running a tremendously efficient operation from, and beware the following will be incredible cynical now, sourcing (getting jews concentrated in ghettos) with close collaboration of local suppliers (the SS, Gestapo and local authorities ranging from French police to the various collaborators in the east) over transportation (including Eichmann himself working on details like damaged passanger rail cars to keep his prime carrier, the Reichsbahn, happy) to the classification of people arriving in incredibly well run extermination factories in the occupied East. It is that efficiency, applied at murdering innocent people for a deprived ideology, that makes the holocaust stand out from all other genocides in history. And that was the main, if not even the only goal, of the Nazis behind WW2.
- pschw 3y ago
  There's a massive scholarly debate about when exactly the Final Solution took shape, with one school of thought being that it wasn't until after the invasion of the USSR that extermination became the goal. Christopher Browning's _The Origins of the Final Solution_ [0] provides a good overview of this position. [0] https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/bison-books/9780803259799/ https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/bison-books/9780803259799/
  - hef19898 3y ago
    The Wannsee conference would be my choice for the date the final solution (gas chambers and exterminatiom camps and sich, the holocaust of bullets started right away) became official policy. Obviouspy all the back room decision have already been met by then, the Wannsee Conference being more of a working level implementation meeting.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  > No idea what you mean that the Nazis behaviour regarding slaws, not just Russians, isn't talked about in the West. I am in the West, and I defenitely didn't learn about from Russian books. Also, claiming the West sees Russians as sub-human is a strong claim, to put it mildly... The comment you replied to is somehow assuming that all slavs are / were Russians and that the Germans didn't somehow also murder a ton of Ukrainians and Poles, among others.

hef19898 3y ago

The Nazis goal of the war was to eradicate all the jews. It was since, at least, Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. It shows in their actions, in how they organized, who got which resources. It was their goal, murdering all jews, and went about it with murderous and frighting efficiency. They only stopped outright murder in has chamber to enslave a portion of people ending up concentrations camps, the vast majority being jews, when Nazi Germany ran into work force issues. It was Speer who convinced Himmler that was necessary, so the Nazis settled for murder through work. No idea what you mean that the Nazis behaviour regarding slaws, not just Russians, isn't talked about in the West. I am in the West, and I defenitely didn't learn about from Russian books. Also, claiming the West sees Russians as sub-human is a strong claim, to put it mildly...

axioms_End 3y ago
One issue : Wansee takes place in 1942, that is in the middle of the war. Until now, most camps are "just" concentration (death by labour) camps, and Jews are mostly in the ghettos. Only after Wansee you have start of mass transports to death camps - most people who died in Auschwitz were never inmates there - they were brought from other countries, sorted on ramp and send to death. Not to mention - at that moment camps were already full of people (Auschwitz was started for Poles and Soviet POV). So no, they didn't "stop" with gas chambers - they have inmates in camps and Jews in ghettos (all having to work in one way or the other), and the idea of Final Solution wasn't complete until 1942 (and took place until 1944).
- hef19898 3y ago
  And the holocaust by bullets pre dates operation Barbarossa. Turned murdering millions of people requires more sophisticated logistics than your average, run of the mill genocide as all tjose done before. Hence Wannsee, the final solution, the extermination camps (of which Auschwitz wasn't one initially). The goal was clear from before the war started so, the means were somewhat less well defined. Edit: As a supply chain and logistics guy myself, the logistics of the holocaust seem to be the only historical occurance the Germans got wartime logistics right. Eichmann was a really good supply chain guy, running a tremendously efficient operation from, and beware the following will be incredible cynical now, sourcing (getting jews concentrated in ghettos) with close collaboration of local suppliers (the SS, Gestapo and local authorities ranging from French police to the various collaborators in the east) over transportation (including Eichmann himself working on details like damaged passanger rail cars to keep his prime carrier, the Reichsbahn, happy) to the classification of people arriving in incredibly well run extermination factories in the occupied East. It is that efficiency, applied at murdering innocent people for a deprived ideology, that makes the holocaust stand out from all other genocides in history. And that was the main, if not even the only goal, of the Nazis behind WW2.
pschw 3y ago
There's a massive scholarly debate about when exactly the Final Solution took shape, with one school of thought being that it wasn't until after the invasion of the USSR that extermination became the goal. Christopher Browning's _The Origins of the Final Solution_ [0] provides a good overview of this position. [0] https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/bison-books/9780803259799/ https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/bison-books/9780803259799/
- hef19898 3y ago
  The Wannsee conference would be my choice for the date the final solution (gas chambers and exterminatiom camps and sich, the holocaust of bullets started right away) became official policy. Obviouspy all the back room decision have already been met by then, the Wannsee Conference being more of a working level implementation meeting.
Tainnor 3y ago
> No idea what you mean that the Nazis behaviour regarding slaws, not just Russians, isn't talked about in the West. I am in the West, and I defenitely didn't learn about from Russian books. Also, claiming the West sees Russians as sub-human is a strong claim, to put it mildly... The comment you replied to is somehow assuming that all slavs are / were Russians and that the Germans didn't somehow also murder a ton of Ukrainians and Poles, among others.