3 ms·

Drama is unavoidable. People are imperfect. They have different opinions and priorities. Miscommunication happens. People unintentionally cause grave offenses.

Drama is unavoidable. People are imperfect. They have different opinions and priorities. Miscommunication happens. People unintentionally cause grave offenses. Sometimes they fail to convey the intended tone over text messages. Sometimes a single malicious person throws a huge wrench into a delicate mechanism. There's really no way around it, any big project is going to have some amount of drama. Good projects find a way to manage it and make corrections to keep the project on track, but conflict and dysfunction can't be entirely avoided.

threeseed 3y ago
I've seen enough drama for one lifetime in the Python, Rust and Scala communities. Surprised I didn't see more in Java over the decades but I suspect that's because those old Sun/Oracle guys would prefer to go fishing than argue about who is more woke or whose agenda is more insidious.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  There's plenty drama in serious organizations as well. It just tends not to be public. You're very naive if you think at a place like Oracle there's no conflict, rivalries, and bitter arguments. At my previous job we had enough drama that the police showed up at the office. Over a year we had screaming, insults, people climbing on the desk and throwing a monitor, and people in management getting into a serious fist fight with a broken nose. Plus a colorful employee who couldn't get his mind out of the gutter and apparently corporate property theft. That was one surreal year, I've got to say, after which I changed jobs. Only none of that happened on a public mailing list, so the only place where you'll hear even a hint of that is here from me.
- naillo 3y ago
  Python etc drama has historically been strong arguments about the future of various parts of the language. This is way different, this is bickering, personal attacks etc. I have nothing against healthy criticism and debate focused on making the project stronger, but this is unprofessional and not something I want to be adjacent to.
- bcantrill 3y ago
  Do not assume that just because you are unaware of conflict that there is none to be had! Specifically, there was tons of conflict in Java, you just didn't see any of it: JavaSoft was infamously political inside Sun, and the HotSpot vs. Exact VM civil war was as hot as any that I have seen in my career.

threeseed 3y ago

I've seen enough drama for one lifetime in the Python, Rust and Scala communities. Surprised I didn't see more in Java over the decades but I suspect that's because those old Sun/Oracle guys would prefer to go fishing than argue about who is more woke or whose agenda is more insidious.

dale_glass 3y ago
There's plenty drama in serious organizations as well. It just tends not to be public. You're very naive if you think at a place like Oracle there's no conflict, rivalries, and bitter arguments. At my previous job we had enough drama that the police showed up at the office. Over a year we had screaming, insults, people climbing on the desk and throwing a monitor, and people in management getting into a serious fist fight with a broken nose. Plus a colorful employee who couldn't get his mind out of the gutter and apparently corporate property theft. That was one surreal year, I've got to say, after which I changed jobs. Only none of that happened on a public mailing list, so the only place where you'll hear even a hint of that is here from me.
naillo 3y ago
Python etc drama has historically been strong arguments about the future of various parts of the language. This is way different, this is bickering, personal attacks etc. I have nothing against healthy criticism and debate focused on making the project stronger, but this is unprofessional and not something I want to be adjacent to.
bcantrill 3y ago
Do not assume that just because you are unaware of conflict that there is none to be had! Specifically, there was tons of conflict in Java, you just didn't see any of it: JavaSoft was infamously political inside Sun, and the HotSpot vs. Exact VM civil war was as hot as any that I have seen in my career.