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If a corporation indirectly kills millions, then no one is accountable, but try to steal from them and you end up in prison.

by ahoka 3y ago

gruez 3y ago
The key word here is "indirectly". You can get away with killing people too, if you do it by a traffic accident for instance.
- simplyskeptic 3y ago
  What he's talking about isn't something they do by accident.
  - jiofj 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - gruez 3y ago
    Every mile of you driving causes a non-zero amount of risk of injury to other road users. The specific crash might be "accidental", but by driving you're making a conscious choice to cause harm to other people.
    - phs318u 3y ago
      If you take this argument to its absurd conclusion, one could argue that by merely living, I'm making a conscious choice to harm other people.
      - jychang 3y ago
        … yes. That’s the entire point. That’s basically the plot to the TV show “The Good Place”.
        FrankoDelMar 3y ago
        If you subscribe to this idea you may enjoy Schopenhauer's "On the Suffering of the World"
    - FrankoDelMar 3y ago
      Maybe a better example is to refer to the marginal effects on mortality caused by vehicle pollution, whereby simply by driving the vehicle causes harm to others, without necessitating a direct consequence of the behavior itself (such in the case of a crash). If say, one in every 10,000 trips resulted in a crash, it would be a bit absurd to say each trip I drive results in 1/10000 of a crash, whereas emitted pollutants is discrete and measurable.
- beardedwizard 3y ago
  Tell me more about the millions dead because of coke. Are you going to apologize for criminals because people have free will? Did coke force people to drink it?
  - ipython 3y ago
    I believe the thread started with a veiled reference to the Sacklers and the lack of jail time related to the manufacture, marketing and covering up the fact that they knew of widespread abuse of OxyCotin (opioids).
  - drekk 3y ago
    It's so funny to watch commentators on HN act like every relationship sports two equal parties that individually are "autonomous rational agents" Coke is cheaper than bottled water because of the aggressive subsidies they've pursued. The reason that poverty is correlated with obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and dementia (among others) is not politically neutral or ethically innocent. It's a byproduct of the system in which we live and for which we are responsible. Sure, you're right, the board of coca cola did not put a gun to my head and force me to do a kegger with their sodas. They "only" spent more than the discretionary budgets of some nation states to get kids "craving" (read: addicted to) high fructose corn syrup. Speaking of guns and forcing people though, are we going to talk about how the company funds paramilitary forces in countries such as Columbia where they kill union activists? I guess those people are foreigners so they don't really enter the calculus. There's nothing more quintessentially American than funding death squads in Latin America I suppose. https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/ https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/ Watching people defend multinationals that would turn them into Soylent Green for 0.01% higher quarter-quarter growth is tragic.
    - beardedwizard 3y ago
      No, we aren't because this is a story about IP theft. Why the comments devolved into apologizing for criminals is beyond me. Nobody is defending multinationals, theft is theft is theft regardless of your politics or personal agenda.
    - 3y ago
beardedwizard 3y ago
What a ridiculous take. Are you trying to say the ends justify the means? This person stole so they could make a competing company.
a_puppy 3y ago
How do corporations "indirectly kill millions"? If you're talking about things like "Coke selling sugary drinks that contribute to millions of people dying of health problems", well, it's perfectly legal for you to sell sugary drinks too.
- bena 3y ago
  It's a bit more apparent if we use Coke's Christian name, 'Coca-Cola', and take a second to break it down. Coca-Cola implies a cola made from coca. Which is pretty much what it is. Coca farming is kind of a big deal and soft drinks aren't the only thing you can make from the coca plant. And while Coca-Cola does use leaf extract that has had the cocaine removed from it, this is less a "seedless watermelon" situation and more of a "decaffeinated coffee" situation. So basically, Coca-Cola is kind of orthogonal to Colombian drug cartels.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >And while Coca-Cola does use leaf extract that has had the cocaine removed from it, this is less a "seedless watermelon" situation and more of a "decaffeinated coffee" situation. >So basically, Coca-Cola is kind of orthogonal to Colombian drug cartels. This comment is baffling. The first paragraph implies that coca-cola is somehow acting like a drug cartel because their products contain coca extract, but the second paragraph does a 180 and claims that it's "orthogonal" (ie. independent or irrelevant) to drug cartels.
    - bena 3y ago
      Why would the information that Coca-Cola uses coca plants imply that they are a drug cartel? They base their business off of the same plant as the drug cartels. They operate independently, and Coca-Cola isn't really going to do anything about the cartels. Or care what they do to coca farmers as long as they also get the part of the plant they care about. And since they don't need the cocaine, it's quite possible that Coca-Cola is made with the by-products of the cocaine extraction process. Technically, we could have one without the other. Because each needs a part that the other does not. And I'm sure as long as it's cheap enough, Coca-Cola isn't going to question too hard about where its extract is source from. And to be fair, Coca-Cola isn't above hiring paramilitaries to keep people in line.

If a corporation indirectly kills millions, then no one is accountable, but try to steal from them and you end up in prison.

by ahoka 3y ago

If a corporation indirectly kills millions, then no one is accountable, but try to steal from them and you end up in prison.

gruez 3y ago

The key word here is "indirectly". You can get away with killing people too, if you do it by a traffic accident for instance.

simplyskeptic 3y ago
What he's talking about isn't something they do by accident.
- jiofj 3y ago
  [flagged]
- gruez 3y ago
  Every mile of you driving causes a non-zero amount of risk of injury to other road users. The specific crash might be "accidental", but by driving you're making a conscious choice to cause harm to other people.
  - phs318u 3y ago
    If you take this argument to its absurd conclusion, one could argue that by merely living, I'm making a conscious choice to harm other people.
    - jychang 3y ago
      … yes. That’s the entire point. That’s basically the plot to the TV show “The Good Place”.
      - FrankoDelMar 3y ago
        If you subscribe to this idea you may enjoy Schopenhauer's "On the Suffering of the World"
  - FrankoDelMar 3y ago
    Maybe a better example is to refer to the marginal effects on mortality caused by vehicle pollution, whereby simply by driving the vehicle causes harm to others, without necessitating a direct consequence of the behavior itself (such in the case of a crash). If say, one in every 10,000 trips resulted in a crash, it would be a bit absurd to say each trip I drive results in 1/10000 of a crash, whereas emitted pollutants is discrete and measurable.
beardedwizard 3y ago
Tell me more about the millions dead because of coke. Are you going to apologize for criminals because people have free will? Did coke force people to drink it?
- ipython 3y ago
  I believe the thread started with a veiled reference to the Sacklers and the lack of jail time related to the manufacture, marketing and covering up the fact that they knew of widespread abuse of OxyCotin (opioids).
- drekk 3y ago
  It's so funny to watch commentators on HN act like every relationship sports two equal parties that individually are "autonomous rational agents" Coke is cheaper than bottled water because of the aggressive subsidies they've pursued. The reason that poverty is correlated with obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and dementia (among others) is not politically neutral or ethically innocent. It's a byproduct of the system in which we live and for which we are responsible. Sure, you're right, the board of coca cola did not put a gun to my head and force me to do a kegger with their sodas. They "only" spent more than the discretionary budgets of some nation states to get kids "craving" (read: addicted to) high fructose corn syrup. Speaking of guns and forcing people though, are we going to talk about how the company funds paramilitary forces in countries such as Columbia where they kill union activists? I guess those people are foreigners so they don't really enter the calculus. There's nothing more quintessentially American than funding death squads in Latin America I suppose. https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/ https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/ Watching people defend multinationals that would turn them into Soylent Green for 0.01% higher quarter-quarter growth is tragic.
  - beardedwizard 3y ago
    No, we aren't because this is a story about IP theft. Why the comments devolved into apologizing for criminals is beyond me. Nobody is defending multinationals, theft is theft is theft regardless of your politics or personal agenda.
  - 3y ago

beardedwizard 3y ago

What a ridiculous take. Are you trying to say the ends justify the means? This person stole so they could make a competing company.

a_puppy 3y ago

How do corporations "indirectly kill millions"? If you're talking about things like "Coke selling sugary drinks that contribute to millions of people dying of health problems", well, it's perfectly legal for you to sell sugary drinks too.

bena 3y ago
It's a bit more apparent if we use Coke's Christian name, 'Coca-Cola', and take a second to break it down. Coca-Cola implies a cola made from coca. Which is pretty much what it is. Coca farming is kind of a big deal and soft drinks aren't the only thing you can make from the coca plant. And while Coca-Cola does use leaf extract that has had the cocaine removed from it, this is less a "seedless watermelon" situation and more of a "decaffeinated coffee" situation. So basically, Coca-Cola is kind of orthogonal to Colombian drug cartels.
- gruez 3y ago
  >And while Coca-Cola does use leaf extract that has had the cocaine removed from it, this is less a "seedless watermelon" situation and more of a "decaffeinated coffee" situation. >So basically, Coca-Cola is kind of orthogonal to Colombian drug cartels. This comment is baffling. The first paragraph implies that coca-cola is somehow acting like a drug cartel because their products contain coca extract, but the second paragraph does a 180 and claims that it's "orthogonal" (ie. independent or irrelevant) to drug cartels.
  - bena 3y ago
    Why would the information that Coca-Cola uses coca plants imply that they are a drug cartel? They base their business off of the same plant as the drug cartels. They operate independently, and Coca-Cola isn't really going to do anything about the cartels. Or care what they do to coca farmers as long as they also get the part of the plant they care about. And since they don't need the cocaine, it's quite possible that Coca-Cola is made with the by-products of the cocaine extraction process. Technically, we could have one without the other. Because each needs a part that the other does not. And I'm sure as long as it's cheap enough, Coca-Cola isn't going to question too hard about where its extract is source from. And to be fair, Coca-Cola isn't above hiring paramilitaries to keep people in line.