4 ms·

While ergonomic keyboards are big part of some peoples fight against RSI, for many more using them is about comfort. After you get used to having tilted keyboa

While ergonomic keyboards are big part of some peoples fight against RSI, for many more using them is about comfort. After you get used to having tilted keyboard going back to normal one just feels tight and uncomfortable. Also for me big part about customizing your tools is exactly that - you get to customize your tools. I type professionally so it is insane to me when I see my colleagues working on some random laptop keyboard and screen day after day when they could spend couple hundred bucks on a nice quality keyboard and large screen or two and make their work more enjoyable.

yyt88 3y ago
"Insane"? I type professionally too. On my laptop, in a myriad different settings. Sometimes in a coffee shop, sometimes on a quiet bench in a hallway, sometimes at home on my sofa, my kitchen table, and sometimes at my desk. I enjoy every minute of it and I'm having a blast. 11 years and counting. If it doesn't work for you then it doesn't mean it won't for anybody else. It's surely not "insane".
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago
  All I read is: "I have been a professional carpenter for a decade and sharp knife is all I use. I use it for floors, chairs, tables, and all. If it doesn't work for you then don't use it" Of course I can work with a tiny laptop screen and keyboard, but I choose to actually have a pleasurable experience when I work.
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    Maybe laptop and tiny screen is pleasurable to them? I’m currently on a big 4K monitor with external keyboard and all that and I’ll probably go back coding on a laptop because for some reason the more compact experience is a lot more enjoyable for me. We’re all different after all and that’s ok
  - yyt88 3y ago
    And you call those "insane" who don't agree.
    - nextlevelwizard 3y ago
      Yes. Of course not meaning actually mental illness, but their values feel so out of wack it doesn’t make sense
- henrik_w 3y ago
  I worked for 14 years, coding almost every day, before I started feeling pain in my arms. Took quite a while to get better. Not saying it will happen to you (people are different), but in my case I think the problems built up over years of working with poor ergonomics. My best advice is to take it seriously if you do start feeling any pain.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Your experience at age 30-ish might not be the same at 40-ish. I don't know myself, as I've not reached 40, but I'll take the advice of those that have and use the appropriate tool in the recommended way.
  - yyt88 3y ago
    I'm mid-50, thanks for asking. I've had a military carreer before doing more desk type of work. This was about keyboards, but sure, we can talk about screen real etate too. It can be great, but it can introduce more distractions too. Having a single laptop screen in front of you makes you focus on what matters most. Those chat and mail windows can stay hidden until I need them and opt to get distracted. Others may see that differently, and that's ok.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- layer8 3y ago
  11 years isn't that long. Serious problems started for me after about 20 years.
- ashbee 3y ago
  Is it possible you've taken more from that single word than was intended? GP said "insane to me". I understood this as a colloquial expression of disbelief or surprise rather than an actual accusation of insanity. E.g. I might say it's insane to me that anyone likes Brussels sprouts. The state of mind of someone who could hold such a position is so alien to me as to be comparable to insanity.
atoav 3y ago
Sometimes switching positions dynamically is less straining than staying in the same (ergonomic) position forever, which is why most ergonomic chairs are about dynamic sitting. But no amount of dynamic sitting and no ergonomic chair will make the bad influence of sitting go away — this can only be dealt with excercise, breaks and stretching. And every ergonomic chair can be misused. A person with good habits can sit healthy on a rock, a person with bad habits can sit unhealthy on a custom made ergonomic chair. The same is true for the hands. As a life-long multi-instrumentalist with trained hands and fingers I could totally see someone with a laptop and the right habits ultimatly acting healthier as someone with the wrong habits and the best ergonomic keyboard that exists for them. And this is the truth: Everything that involves the human motor system is never just about the objects we interact with, but always also to a major degree how we interact with them. My grand-grandmother that worked in her garden with 109 didn't have any ergonomic tools (as they didn't exist), but all the right habits. Habits are always more important than tools.
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago
  Which is why RSI averse people recommend having multiple different input devices. I do not suffer from RSI, but I have different keyboards for different things.
sesm 3y ago
There is a trade-off between mobility and ergonomics. For some people mobility is more important for various reasons.
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago
  Maybe, but when they sit next to me for 8 hours that argument kind a falls off. I am sure there are exceptions to this, but from my experience these people also aren’t nearly as productive as people who have usable, comfortable setups

yyt88 3y ago

"Insane"? I type professionally too. On my laptop, in a myriad different settings. Sometimes in a coffee shop, sometimes on a quiet bench in a hallway, sometimes at home on my sofa, my kitchen table, and sometimes at my desk. I enjoy every minute of it and I'm having a blast. 11 years and counting. If it doesn't work for you then it doesn't mean it won't for anybody else. It's surely not "insane".

nextlevelwizard 3y ago
All I read is: "I have been a professional carpenter for a decade and sharp knife is all I use. I use it for floors, chairs, tables, and all. If it doesn't work for you then don't use it" Of course I can work with a tiny laptop screen and keyboard, but I choose to actually have a pleasurable experience when I work.
- manuelmoreale 3y ago
  Maybe laptop and tiny screen is pleasurable to them? I’m currently on a big 4K monitor with external keyboard and all that and I’ll probably go back coding on a laptop because for some reason the more compact experience is a lot more enjoyable for me. We’re all different after all and that’s ok
- yyt88 3y ago
  And you call those "insane" who don't agree.
  - nextlevelwizard 3y ago
    Yes. Of course not meaning actually mental illness, but their values feel so out of wack it doesn’t make sense
henrik_w 3y ago
I worked for 14 years, coding almost every day, before I started feeling pain in my arms. Took quite a while to get better. Not saying it will happen to you (people are different), but in my case I think the problems built up over years of working with poor ergonomics. My best advice is to take it seriously if you do start feeling any pain.
Symbiote 3y ago
Your experience at age 30-ish might not be the same at 40-ish. I don't know myself, as I've not reached 40, but I'll take the advice of those that have and use the appropriate tool in the recommended way.
- yyt88 3y ago
  I'm mid-50, thanks for asking. I've had a military carreer before doing more desk type of work. This was about keyboards, but sure, we can talk about screen real etate too. It can be great, but it can introduce more distractions too. Having a single laptop screen in front of you makes you focus on what matters most. Those chat and mail windows can stay hidden until I need them and opt to get distracted. Others may see that differently, and that's ok.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
layer8 3y ago
11 years isn't that long. Serious problems started for me after about 20 years.
ashbee 3y ago
Is it possible you've taken more from that single word than was intended? GP said "insane to me". I understood this as a colloquial expression of disbelief or surprise rather than an actual accusation of insanity. E.g. I might say it's insane to me that anyone likes Brussels sprouts. The state of mind of someone who could hold such a position is so alien to me as to be comparable to insanity.

atoav 3y ago

Sometimes switching positions dynamically is less straining than staying in the same (ergonomic) position forever, which is why most ergonomic chairs are about dynamic sitting. But no amount of dynamic sitting and no ergonomic chair will make the bad influence of sitting go away — this can only be dealt with excercise, breaks and stretching. And every ergonomic chair can be misused. A person with good habits can sit healthy on a rock, a person with bad habits can sit unhealthy on a custom made ergonomic chair. The same is true for the hands. As a life-long multi-instrumentalist with trained hands and fingers I could totally see someone with a laptop and the right habits ultimatly acting healthier as someone with the wrong habits and the best ergonomic keyboard that exists for them. And this is the truth: Everything that involves the human motor system is never just about the objects we interact with, but always also to a major degree how we interact with them. My grand-grandmother that worked in her garden with 109 didn't have any ergonomic tools (as they didn't exist), but all the right habits. Habits are always more important than tools.

nextlevelwizard 3y ago
Which is why RSI averse people recommend having multiple different input devices. I do not suffer from RSI, but I have different keyboards for different things.

sesm 3y ago

There is a trade-off between mobility and ergonomics. For some people mobility is more important for various reasons.

nextlevelwizard 3y ago
Maybe, but when they sit next to me for 8 hours that argument kind a falls off. I am sure there are exceptions to this, but from my experience these people also aren’t nearly as productive as people who have usable, comfortable setups