4 ms·

History is written by the victors, and then endlessly rewritten after that. At present, historians are very busy writing the history of subaltern voices - ie i

History is written by the victors, and then endlessly rewritten after that. At present, historians are very busy writing the history of subaltern voices - ie introducing stories from marginalised perspectives into the historical record. At the other end of this sausage factory are the consumers who are fed this information which is presented as fact - hardly ever are we presented with the raw evidence that these stories are based on. I'm very glad that this angle on history is receiving greater attention; it is absolutely equivalent to the replication crisis in science. It seems that all academic endeavours are politicised and bent towards some ends that are predetermined - rather than a natural unfolding of ever increasing understanding.

HPsquared 3y ago
"I never discuss anything else except politics and religion. There is nothing else to discuss." -GK Chesterton Every thought is subject to the ideology in the thinker's mind.
- verisimi 3y ago
  It is. But academic fields (perhaps all fields across society) are all bent towards a progressive liberal outlook. This outlook is also highly intolerant of divergent views - if they disagree with your voice, they will not fight for your right to speak anyway - you will be deplatformed. That intolerance is the most pernicious element to me.
rectang 3y ago
This piece does the opposite of acknowledging that history is written by the victors. It it is an attack on the credibility of a particular perspective, striving to paint the author's opponents as fictional story tellers while the author is objective and rational.
- verisimi 3y ago
  History ought to be an evidence driven practise - the evidence (primary, secondary, tertiary) should drive the theory. It ought to be the scientific method applied to historical evidence. As I read this post, the author is saying that Bulstrode had very little or no evidence to claim the story that was then widely circulated in many media outlets. The author is using that one example to illustrate a wider principle in play - that not many of the historical stories are based in sound reasoning. This is my assessment too. If there is little or no evidence, where is the greater bias? Is it in the person that conjures up the story (Bulstrode) or in the author who is saying the story is not well supported?
nextaccountic 3y ago
> History is written by the victors Not necessarily; history is written by those that are literate. Here's some threads about it https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xcqgc/they_always_say_historys_written_by_the_winners/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xcqgc/they_a... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1903ac/is_history_really_written_by_the_victors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1903ac/is_hi... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/516t6c/is_history_written_by_the_victors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/516t6c/is_hi... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2becnq/i_hear_the_phrase_history_is_written_by_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2becnq/i_hea... https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/5grjf1/how_true_is_the_phrase_history_is_written_by_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/5grjf1/how_true_is... A selected quote > well, in case of the Vikings it was mostly the other way round. The monks who got plundered were the "literate class" of their time, hence in this case it was written by the "losers".
- verisimi 3y ago
  But do you realise that the research you present here is not actually evidence? It is a link to a historian's opinion. It would be like reading a quote from the guardian about how Bulstrode is presenting remarkable research. Meta analysis such as this, based on hearsay rather than personal verification and assessment of the actual evidence, is assuredly not the way to get to the truth of the matter.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    Seems like a fairly intuitive claim though.
    - verisimi 3y ago
      The idea of a flat earth is also a fairly intuitive claim too, as none of us experience any of the sphere earth attributes - we don't see a curve, experience the spin, etc. Intuition without evidence is really just a story.
vacuity 3y ago
> History is written by the victors Look up the "Lost Cause of the Confederacy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy A notable and unfortunate exception. To give you an idea of its impact: > First enunciated in 1866, it has continued to influence racism, gender roles, and religious attitudes in the Southern United States to the present day. > In that regard, white supremacy is a central feature of the Lost Cause narrative.

HPsquared 3y ago

"I never discuss anything else except politics and religion. There is nothing else to discuss." -GK Chesterton Every thought is subject to the ideology in the thinker's mind.

verisimi 3y ago
It is. But academic fields (perhaps all fields across society) are all bent towards a progressive liberal outlook. This outlook is also highly intolerant of divergent views - if they disagree with your voice, they will not fight for your right to speak anyway - you will be deplatformed. That intolerance is the most pernicious element to me.

rectang 3y ago

This piece does the opposite of acknowledging that history is written by the victors. It it is an attack on the credibility of a particular perspective, striving to paint the author's opponents as fictional story tellers while the author is objective and rational.

verisimi 3y ago
History ought to be an evidence driven practise - the evidence (primary, secondary, tertiary) should drive the theory. It ought to be the scientific method applied to historical evidence. As I read this post, the author is saying that Bulstrode had very little or no evidence to claim the story that was then widely circulated in many media outlets. The author is using that one example to illustrate a wider principle in play - that not many of the historical stories are based in sound reasoning. This is my assessment too. If there is little or no evidence, where is the greater bias? Is it in the person that conjures up the story (Bulstrode) or in the author who is saying the story is not well supported?

nextaccountic 3y ago

> History is written by the victors Not necessarily; history is written by those that are literate. Here's some threads about it https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xcqgc/they_always_say_historys_written_by_the_winners/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xcqgc/they_a... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1903ac/is_history_really_written_by_the_victors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1903ac/is_hi... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/516t6c/is_history_written_by_the_victors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/516t6c/is_hi... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2becnq/i_hear_the_phrase_history_is_written_by_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2becnq/i_hea... https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/5grjf1/how_true_is_the_phrase_history_is_written_by_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/5grjf1/how_true_is... A selected quote > well, in case of the Vikings it was mostly the other way round. The monks who got plundered were the "literate class" of their time, hence in this case it was written by the "losers".

verisimi 3y ago
But do you realise that the research you present here is not actually evidence? It is a link to a historian's opinion. It would be like reading a quote from the guardian about how Bulstrode is presenting remarkable research. Meta analysis such as this, based on hearsay rather than personal verification and assessment of the actual evidence, is assuredly not the way to get to the truth of the matter.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Seems like a fairly intuitive claim though.
  - verisimi 3y ago
    The idea of a flat earth is also a fairly intuitive claim too, as none of us experience any of the sphere earth attributes - we don't see a curve, experience the spin, etc. Intuition without evidence is really just a story.

vacuity 3y ago

> History is written by the victors Look up the "Lost Cause of the Confederacy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy A notable and unfortunate exception. To give you an idea of its impact: > First enunciated in 1866, it has continued to influence racism, gender roles, and religious attitudes in the Southern United States to the present day. > In that regard, white supremacy is a central feature of the Lost Cause narrative.