4 ms·

Why not? Public mass transit is far more efficient. The push for cars keeps car owners (in the corp and profit sense) alive. Only. Add in the pretend notion

Why not? Public mass transit is far more efficient. The push for cars keeps car owners (in the corp and profit sense) alive. Only. Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. If we (tech fans) really wanted to help alleviate the problems roads have (traffic, accidents, etc) - public mass transit is the way to go. But I guess .. where’s the immediate hype-based profit in that? (think: “omg blockchain… I mean nft… I mean ai!!1!!”)

userbinator 3y ago
Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. It is freedom. Life is "energy wasting" too, but don't let that get in the way of ideological virtue-signaling... Those working in the mass transit industry call passengers "cattle" for a reason. Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse.
- flandish 3y ago
  How is it freedom? It’s being beholden to a road, a licensure, a financial burden, an environmental one, and so on… Yes, one can get into the car and drive and live “the way of the road” like Ricky’s dad on TPB but again: How is that freedom? “Freedom” is american marketing.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  It is freedom It's a tragedy of the commons.
- jprete 3y ago
  I don't think I've ever heard of self-driving cars as a freedom-promoting technology. In fact, I remember self-driving car fans of a decade ago being very enthusiastic about the prospect of banning human drivers.
- kakwa_ 3y ago
  > Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse. Sorry, but "far worse" is simply excessive. Living in a large European city, namely Paris, and having experienced both car and mass transit, I prefer the second option a lot, to the point I sold my car without replacement about 6 years ago after 2 years of barely using it. There is of course the ecological aspects, but even in terms of quality of life, I much prefer public transports: it's cheaper, it's less stressful, it's more predictable and I'm able to do other things like reading while transiting. By comparison, in this context (dense urban area), cars, with their needs (maintenance, parking, etc) are actually more constrain than freedom. And that's not like I'm a unique case, most of my colleagues either use public transports or (e)bikes, car users are a minority (~20%). In Paris, there is even a large proportion of the population who didn't even have a driving license at all. Doesn't it means that mass transit is the perfect solution? no. But in dense urban area, it's probably the best compromise.
  - mrbadguy 3y ago
    Agreed, I find it much more freeing not to have to drive and deal with the various stresses and expenses involved. I think mostly people are talking at cross purposes though. I too live in a large European city and getting around by car is incredibly constraining (traffic, parking, other drivers etc) while using the public transport system, while not perfect, is smooth in comparison. However, for less dense areas, eg going on holiday somewhere in the countryside, it is much more convenient to have a car and I suspect that many people are coming from this angle. In those circumstances, I will rent a car as necessary. It doesn’t happen often so I still save in comparison with the cost of owning a car. Living in sparse suburbs is probably hell without a car. This is partly because of poor town planning but also, I imagine, because a certain set of people want to have that much space. The trouble is that the externalities of the car travel are generally concentrated elsewhere, so it’s a bit unfair.
ForestCritter 3y ago
says the person who never had to get to work on time across town with public transit...
- flandish 3y ago
  Says the person who missed the point… would more money in public transportation not help your concern?
  - ForestCritter 3y ago
    no because the logistics simply don't add up to get everybody where they need to be when they need to be there. Most particularly retail and restuarant workers.
    - flandish 3y ago
      Seems like a planning problem.
- sketch242 3y ago
  I used to commute to Chicago from the suburbs and the train was a much more reliable way to arrive at work on time than driving, where traffic made travel time highly variable.
  - ForestCritter 3y ago
    only very big cities have trains and again they are only convenient if they are going in your direction. I lived in Montreal for six years without a car. I could walk to work in 45 minutes. It would take 1/12 hours to get to work by subway and or bus.
BizarreByte 3y ago
> the pretend notion that cars equal freedom I don't see how it's pretend. Sure its not true freedom in the sense there's no cost or rules, but cars allow for spontaneity and a way to easily go off the beaten track. Cars are liberating in the same way a horse would have been hundreds of years ago. A car allows me to go where I want, when I want and that's worth any cost. They make the average person's life better and I wouldn't want to live in a world where I couldn't drive.
- flandish 3y ago
  No-one says you cant. I just think tech $ could do better spent on public transportation.
  - BizarreByte 3y ago
    Frankly I'd prefer SV type tech money not spent on cars too. I don't want a touchscreen on wheels.

userbinator 3y ago

Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. It is freedom. Life is "energy wasting" too, but don't let that get in the way of ideological virtue-signaling... Those working in the mass transit industry call passengers "cattle" for a reason. Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse.

flandish 3y ago
How is it freedom? It’s being beholden to a road, a licensure, a financial burden, an environmental one, and so on… Yes, one can get into the car and drive and live “the way of the road” like Ricky’s dad on TPB but again: How is that freedom? “Freedom” is american marketing.
inferiorhuman 3y ago
It is freedom It's a tragedy of the commons.
jprete 3y ago
I don't think I've ever heard of self-driving cars as a freedom-promoting technology. In fact, I remember self-driving car fans of a decade ago being very enthusiastic about the prospect of banning human drivers.
kakwa_ 3y ago
> Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse. Sorry, but "far worse" is simply excessive. Living in a large European city, namely Paris, and having experienced both car and mass transit, I prefer the second option a lot, to the point I sold my car without replacement about 6 years ago after 2 years of barely using it. There is of course the ecological aspects, but even in terms of quality of life, I much prefer public transports: it's cheaper, it's less stressful, it's more predictable and I'm able to do other things like reading while transiting. By comparison, in this context (dense urban area), cars, with their needs (maintenance, parking, etc) are actually more constrain than freedom. And that's not like I'm a unique case, most of my colleagues either use public transports or (e)bikes, car users are a minority (~20%). In Paris, there is even a large proportion of the population who didn't even have a driving license at all. Doesn't it means that mass transit is the perfect solution? no. But in dense urban area, it's probably the best compromise.
- mrbadguy 3y ago
  Agreed, I find it much more freeing not to have to drive and deal with the various stresses and expenses involved. I think mostly people are talking at cross purposes though. I too live in a large European city and getting around by car is incredibly constraining (traffic, parking, other drivers etc) while using the public transport system, while not perfect, is smooth in comparison. However, for less dense areas, eg going on holiday somewhere in the countryside, it is much more convenient to have a car and I suspect that many people are coming from this angle. In those circumstances, I will rent a car as necessary. It doesn’t happen often so I still save in comparison with the cost of owning a car. Living in sparse suburbs is probably hell without a car. This is partly because of poor town planning but also, I imagine, because a certain set of people want to have that much space. The trouble is that the externalities of the car travel are generally concentrated elsewhere, so it’s a bit unfair.

ForestCritter 3y ago

says the person who never had to get to work on time across town with public transit...

flandish 3y ago
Says the person who missed the point… would more money in public transportation not help your concern?
- ForestCritter 3y ago
  no because the logistics simply don't add up to get everybody where they need to be when they need to be there. Most particularly retail and restuarant workers.
  - flandish 3y ago
    Seems like a planning problem.
sketch242 3y ago
I used to commute to Chicago from the suburbs and the train was a much more reliable way to arrive at work on time than driving, where traffic made travel time highly variable.
- ForestCritter 3y ago
  only very big cities have trains and again they are only convenient if they are going in your direction. I lived in Montreal for six years without a car. I could walk to work in 45 minutes. It would take 1/12 hours to get to work by subway and or bus.

BizarreByte 3y ago

> the pretend notion that cars equal freedom I don't see how it's pretend. Sure its not true freedom in the sense there's no cost or rules, but cars allow for spontaneity and a way to easily go off the beaten track. Cars are liberating in the same way a horse would have been hundreds of years ago. A car allows me to go where I want, when I want and that's worth any cost. They make the average person's life better and I wouldn't want to live in a world where I couldn't drive.

flandish 3y ago
No-one says you cant. I just think tech $ could do better spent on public transportation.
- BizarreByte 3y ago
  Frankly I'd prefer SV type tech money not spent on cars too. I don't want a touchscreen on wheels.