5 ms·

I agree with you, but nitpick/warning about Clover specifically: I would not say they have "lots of" vegan options; last time I went they had two vegan sandwich

I agree with you, but nitpick/warning about Clover specifically: I would not say they have "lots of" vegan options; last time I went they had two vegan sandwiches, one of which is on the "secret menu" -- except for the time when they swapped out the vegan mayo on it for a dairy mayo without telling anyone because of supply issues. They've also been actively hostile toward vegans on social media and even in-store media (they briefly had a "vegan wall of shame" at their DTX location) -- their owner is petty as they come. If you are looking for vegan food in Boston there are so many better options -- I would recommend literally anywhere else. My preferred example of non-exclusive labeling in the Boston area is Red White Boneless Ramen in Back Bay. Their store and menu are devoid of any mention of "vegan", "vegetarian", or "plant-based" (beside the recent addition of "Boneless" to their branding) but they are 100% vegan (and crazy delicious).

r0b1n 3y ago
Wtf, dairy mayo? Is this an american thing? Mayonaise is oil, egg yolk and optionally mustard/garlic/spices/flavourings.
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  Eggs are dairy!
  - jmull 3y ago
    Most people understand dairy products to mean things made from or containing milk. There’s a pretty close association between such products and eggs, so I can understand why people might try to use the same label. But ultimately I think this is just causing confusion and pointless side discussions (like this one!), so it would probably be better if we dropped it.
    - spondylosaurus 3y ago
      I disagree. Particularly in the "vegan versus vegetarian" debate, it's widely understood that what separates the former from the latter is milk and eggs. And in this context specifically, it should be evident that regular mayonnaise isn't vegan, since vegans don't eat animal products. Which includes eggs!
      - reducesuffering 3y ago
        That doesn't mean that dairy is the singular word to refer to the difference between vegans and vegetarians. Dairy is widely understood to mean solely milk products. Vegetarian is vegan + dairy + eggs. Use a different word for dairy + eggs.
  - chefandy 3y ago
    You might be interested in my comment above.
  - cassianoleal 3y ago
    > The attributive dairy describes milk-based products, derivatives and processes, and the animals and workers involved in their production, for example dairyman, dairymaid, dairy cattle or dairy goat. A dairy farm produces milk and a dairy factory processes it into a variety of dairy products. These establishments constitute the global dairy industry, part of the food industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy
- jmull 3y ago
  Vegans wouldn’t eat eggs. I’m guessing they mean conventional mayo made with eggs.
- chefandy 3y ago
  It's certainly a geographical, if not entirely US quirk to conflate eggs and dairy products. (As an aside, butter fat doesn't really emulsify into mayonnaise, sadly, but hollandaise is always nice.) It's not a formal status or anything— it's chiefly used among laypeople or in communications targeting them, and not among people who eat kosher, etc— but it is very common. Why? US eggs are stored, shipped, and sold refrigerated. For logistical simplicity, they're usually kept in the refrigerated dairy section of our grocery stores. We do that because our eggs have their natural coatings washed off and they are given a light (pretty much imperceptible) coating of mineral oil. While that does slightly reduce the liklihood of contact cross-contamination from our filthy poultry supply chain, it makes them more susceptible to spoilage— though they're generally fine for extended periods at room temp as long as they stay dry... but restaurant health inspectors sure as hell wouldn't tolerate it. (Some people actually immerse them in mineral oil to preserve them for much longer, though I have no clue what the comparative time to spoilage would be.) Last I checked, there was a 1 in 10k chance of an egg having enough salmonella (et al) to sicken a healthy adult if eaten raw, but the FDA went on the offensive at some point in the 70s or 80s admonishing people not to eat eggs that weren't fully cooked, eg. with runny yolks, so now diners that sell bazillion "over easy" runny fried eggs, and even some bars that make you any sort of flip or other cocktail with egg whites, legally has to put a disclaimer on the menu saying that it might cause foodborne illness. You can always get cartons of egg whites, and less frequently, whole shell eggs that were pasteurized slowly enough for them to maintain the physical properties of raw eggs without the slight pathogenic risk— very handy feeding or serving egg drinks to more suseptible folks, such as the elderly, immunocompromised, or children.
  - r0b1n 3y ago
    Thank you for your answer. Side note: I very much love pasteurized carton eggs. Pre-separated, no guessing the size ("my recipe wants 3 medium eggs, i only have large, do I use 2.54?") and peace of mind when making stuff like fresh mayonaise.
    - hollerith 3y ago
      Home made mayo made from US eggs is not safe unless enough acidity is used and the mayo stands at room temperature long enough before consumption--because the pasturization does not kill salmonella inside the egg.
chefandy 3y ago
I haven't lived in Boston for a few years— thanks for the heads-up! The owner is definitely one of the issues I have with them.

r0b1n 3y ago

Wtf, dairy mayo? Is this an american thing? Mayonaise is oil, egg yolk and optionally mustard/garlic/spices/flavourings.

spondylosaurus 3y ago
Eggs are dairy!
- jmull 3y ago
  Most people understand dairy products to mean things made from or containing milk. There’s a pretty close association between such products and eggs, so I can understand why people might try to use the same label. But ultimately I think this is just causing confusion and pointless side discussions (like this one!), so it would probably be better if we dropped it.
  - spondylosaurus 3y ago
    I disagree. Particularly in the "vegan versus vegetarian" debate, it's widely understood that what separates the former from the latter is milk and eggs. And in this context specifically, it should be evident that regular mayonnaise isn't vegan, since vegans don't eat animal products. Which includes eggs!
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      That doesn't mean that dairy is the singular word to refer to the difference between vegans and vegetarians. Dairy is widely understood to mean solely milk products. Vegetarian is vegan + dairy + eggs. Use a different word for dairy + eggs.
- chefandy 3y ago
  You might be interested in my comment above.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  > The attributive dairy describes milk-based products, derivatives and processes, and the animals and workers involved in their production, for example dairyman, dairymaid, dairy cattle or dairy goat. A dairy farm produces milk and a dairy factory processes it into a variety of dairy products. These establishments constitute the global dairy industry, part of the food industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy
jmull 3y ago
Vegans wouldn’t eat eggs. I’m guessing they mean conventional mayo made with eggs.
chefandy 3y ago
It's certainly a geographical, if not entirely US quirk to conflate eggs and dairy products. (As an aside, butter fat doesn't really emulsify into mayonnaise, sadly, but hollandaise is always nice.) It's not a formal status or anything— it's chiefly used among laypeople or in communications targeting them, and not among people who eat kosher, etc— but it is very common. Why? US eggs are stored, shipped, and sold refrigerated. For logistical simplicity, they're usually kept in the refrigerated dairy section of our grocery stores. We do that because our eggs have their natural coatings washed off and they are given a light (pretty much imperceptible) coating of mineral oil. While that does slightly reduce the liklihood of contact cross-contamination from our filthy poultry supply chain, it makes them more susceptible to spoilage— though they're generally fine for extended periods at room temp as long as they stay dry... but restaurant health inspectors sure as hell wouldn't tolerate it. (Some people actually immerse them in mineral oil to preserve them for much longer, though I have no clue what the comparative time to spoilage would be.) Last I checked, there was a 1 in 10k chance of an egg having enough salmonella (et al) to sicken a healthy adult if eaten raw, but the FDA went on the offensive at some point in the 70s or 80s admonishing people not to eat eggs that weren't fully cooked, eg. with runny yolks, so now diners that sell bazillion "over easy" runny fried eggs, and even some bars that make you any sort of flip or other cocktail with egg whites, legally has to put a disclaimer on the menu saying that it might cause foodborne illness. You can always get cartons of egg whites, and less frequently, whole shell eggs that were pasteurized slowly enough for them to maintain the physical properties of raw eggs without the slight pathogenic risk— very handy feeding or serving egg drinks to more suseptible folks, such as the elderly, immunocompromised, or children.
- r0b1n 3y ago
  Thank you for your answer. Side note: I very much love pasteurized carton eggs. Pre-separated, no guessing the size ("my recipe wants 3 medium eggs, i only have large, do I use 2.54?") and peace of mind when making stuff like fresh mayonaise.
  - hollerith 3y ago
    Home made mayo made from US eggs is not safe unless enough acidity is used and the mayo stands at room temperature long enough before consumption--because the pasturization does not kill salmonella inside the egg.

chefandy 3y ago

I haven't lived in Boston for a few years— thanks for the heads-up! The owner is definitely one of the issues I have with them.