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I used to be a chef. It's really easy to level a bunch of value judgements at people on topics like this, but the truth is, food marketing is complicated, and n
by chefandy 3y ago
I used to be a chef. It's really easy to level a bunch of value judgements at people on topics like this, but the truth is, food marketing is complicated, and none of us is as rational about our choices as we might imagine.
Putting aside the appeal of the terms vegetarian and vegan, which is what most comments here seem to focus on, there are other factors. I reckon the most important one is in-groups and out-groups. As soon as you label something as being "for someone," it subtly implies that it not for someone else.
The small Boston-area fast casual chain Clover did a really good job of side-stepping that. Their menu was ovo-lacto vegetarian with lots of vegan options, but they simply didn't market themselves as such. In turn, they were generally seen as a restaurant for everybody that served plant-based foods rather than a restaurant for people who eat plant-based diets. There are things that kind of annoy me about Clover that I won't get into here, and I'm not a vegetarian, but I do really admire what they did there.
- colanderman 3y agoI agree with you, but nitpick/warning about Clover specifically: I would not say they have "lots of" vegan options; last time I went they had two vegan sandwiches, one of which is on the "secret menu" -- except for the time when they swapped out the vegan mayo on it for a dairy mayo without telling anyone because of supply issues. They've also been actively hostile toward vegans on social media and even in-store media (they briefly had a "vegan wall of shame" at their DTX location) -- their owner is petty as they come. If you are looking for vegan food in Boston there are so many better options -- I would recommend literally anywhere else. My preferred example of non-exclusive labeling in the Boston area is Red White Boneless Ramen in Back Bay. Their store and menu are devoid of any mention of "vegan", "vegetarian", or "plant-based" (beside the recent addition of "Boneless" to their branding) but they are 100% vegan (and crazy delicious).
- r0b1n 3y agoWtf, dairy mayo? Is this an american thing? Mayonaise is oil, egg yolk and optionally mustard/garlic/spices/flavourings.
- spondylosaurus 3y agoEggs are dairy!
- jmull 3y agoMost people understand dairy products to mean things made from or containing milk. There’s a pretty close association between such products and eggs, so I can understand why people might try to use the same label. But ultimately I think this is just causing confusion and pointless side discussions (like this one!), so it would probably be better if we dropped it.
- spondylosaurus 3y agoI disagree. Particularly in the "vegan versus vegetarian" debate, it's widely understood that what separates the former from the latter is milk and eggs. And in this context specifically, it should be evident that regular mayonnaise isn't vegan, since vegans don't eat animal products. Which includes eggs!
- reducesuffering 3y agoThat doesn't mean that dairy is the singular word to refer to the difference between vegans and vegetarians. Dairy is widely understood to mean solely milk products. Vegetarian is vegan + dairy + eggs. Use a different word for dairy + eggs.
- chefandy 3y agoYou might be interested in my comment above.
- cassianoleal 3y ago> The attributive dairy describes milk-based products, derivatives and processes, and the animals and workers involved in their production, for example dairyman, dairymaid, dairy cattle or dairy goat. A dairy farm produces milk and a dairy factory processes it into a variety of dairy products. These establishments constitute the global dairy industry, part of the food industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy
- chefandy 3y agoI haven't lived in Boston for a few years— thanks for the heads-up! The owner is definitely one of the issues I have with them.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]