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> Reducing consumption of animal products is a critically important challenge in efforts to mitigate the climate crisis. Despite this, meals containing animal p

> Reducing consumption of animal products is a critically important challenge in efforts to mitigate the climate crisis. Despite this, meals containing animal products are often presented as the default versus more environmentally sustainable vegetarian or vegan options. This told me everything I needed to know about the authors' beliefs. While I don't appreciate this position, I do appreciate their honesty. Kudos to them for that.

froddd 3y ago
What do you mean? I don’t see anything to do with opinion or personal preference of the author in the quoted statement, hence my question.
- BillyTheMage 3y ago
  I think it's the fact that they're only vegan because of consequences, not because they have a moral opposition to harming animals, which is what veganism is supposed to be about.
  - DangitBobby 3y ago
    That's funny, I assumed it was someone bristling at the thought of veggie-isms being the way of the future.
mcdonje 3y ago
I assume by that you mean it told you their beliefs are in-line with scientific consensus. Because the quote is in-line with scientific consensus.
- belorn 3y ago
  The global scientific consensus is that climate change is primarily caused by humans burning fossil fuels. Fossil fuel use is what put more green house gases into the atmosphere, which in turn is heating the earth beyond what the environment can handle. How critical different strategies are to combating climate change has a significant weaker consensus. Energy productions and energy usage is usually the most critical in mitigating climate change. Diet is fairly debated subject, with some researchers listing it higher on the list while others listing it much lower. Agriculture is often combined with land use, but the deeper one go into this subject the more difficult things get. A "wet" forest is several times better than a dry forest, so in terms of combating climate change, removing water draining can be more effective than increasing the amount of land dedicated to forestation. There are many factors for policy makers and a lot of low hanging fruit that is more critical to target first.
  - mcdonje 3y ago
    I was not wrong to say that the statement quoted from the paper is in-line with scientific consensus. Your assessment of how some rank their lists doesn't make the statement wrong. Most scientists who look at the numbers agree that animal agriculture needs to be addressed to help combat climate change.
    - vallassy 3y ago
      I think the point here is that animals raised for meat should not be conflated with burning fossil fuels. Cattle, chickens etc. are part of the carbon cycle. Modern high-intensity farming practices such as feedlots and cage chickens - where the majority of the feed is grain and harvested hay - are probably where the conflation enters. There is just as much a need to raise healthy, minimally carbon intensive animals as there is to reduce eating meat. There are farming methods to do this, but change is slow.
      - mcdonje 3y ago
        Not sure why you're talking about 'conflating with burning fossil fuels'. I didn't do that and neither did the paper. It seems like you're not read up on the topic. Staggering amounts of methane and nitrous oxide. Massive deforestation and other habitat loss (read: reduction of carbon sinks).
    - belorn 3y ago
      When people appeal to authority it is important to include context which fully describe the view and perspective of said authority so that the information is not just correct, but given in context so that it is not misleading. When scientists discuss diet in terms of global warming, part of that discussion include fair wages, ethnic discrimination, inequality, land ownership, ethnic heritage and culture, biodiversity and many other similar topics. All those influence how animal agriculture effects climate change. The global consensus is however very weak the further one goes from fossil fuels. Fossil fuels impact on global warming is an established fact in the global scientific community, as well as the requirement to stop burning fossil fuels. Inequality is also a fairly establish contributor to global warming by itself, but the exact solutions does not have a strong consensus.

froddd 3y ago

What do you mean? I don’t see anything to do with opinion or personal preference of the author in the quoted statement, hence my question.

BillyTheMage 3y ago
I think it's the fact that they're only vegan because of consequences, not because they have a moral opposition to harming animals, which is what veganism is supposed to be about.
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  That's funny, I assumed it was someone bristling at the thought of veggie-isms being the way of the future.

mcdonje 3y ago

I assume by that you mean it told you their beliefs are in-line with scientific consensus. Because the quote is in-line with scientific consensus.

belorn 3y ago
The global scientific consensus is that climate change is primarily caused by humans burning fossil fuels. Fossil fuel use is what put more green house gases into the atmosphere, which in turn is heating the earth beyond what the environment can handle. How critical different strategies are to combating climate change has a significant weaker consensus. Energy productions and energy usage is usually the most critical in mitigating climate change. Diet is fairly debated subject, with some researchers listing it higher on the list while others listing it much lower. Agriculture is often combined with land use, but the deeper one go into this subject the more difficult things get. A "wet" forest is several times better than a dry forest, so in terms of combating climate change, removing water draining can be more effective than increasing the amount of land dedicated to forestation. There are many factors for policy makers and a lot of low hanging fruit that is more critical to target first.
- mcdonje 3y ago
  I was not wrong to say that the statement quoted from the paper is in-line with scientific consensus. Your assessment of how some rank their lists doesn't make the statement wrong. Most scientists who look at the numbers agree that animal agriculture needs to be addressed to help combat climate change.
  - vallassy 3y ago
    I think the point here is that animals raised for meat should not be conflated with burning fossil fuels. Cattle, chickens etc. are part of the carbon cycle. Modern high-intensity farming practices such as feedlots and cage chickens - where the majority of the feed is grain and harvested hay - are probably where the conflation enters. There is just as much a need to raise healthy, minimally carbon intensive animals as there is to reduce eating meat. There are farming methods to do this, but change is slow.
    - mcdonje 3y ago
      Not sure why you're talking about 'conflating with burning fossil fuels'. I didn't do that and neither did the paper. It seems like you're not read up on the topic. Staggering amounts of methane and nitrous oxide. Massive deforestation and other habitat loss (read: reduction of carbon sinks).
  - belorn 3y ago
    When people appeal to authority it is important to include context which fully describe the view and perspective of said authority so that the information is not just correct, but given in context so that it is not misleading. When scientists discuss diet in terms of global warming, part of that discussion include fair wages, ethnic discrimination, inequality, land ownership, ethnic heritage and culture, biodiversity and many other similar topics. All those influence how animal agriculture effects climate change. The global consensus is however very weak the further one goes from fossil fuels. Fossil fuels impact on global warming is an established fact in the global scientific community, as well as the requirement to stop burning fossil fuels. Inequality is also a fairly establish contributor to global warming by itself, but the exact solutions does not have a strong consensus.