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If I see something labelled vegan I immediately think it's going to taste worse. I don't think that about vegetarian food necessarily. But when I see it labelle

If I see something labelled vegan I immediately think it's going to taste worse. I don't think that about vegetarian food necessarily. But when I see it labelled that way on a menu it does go through my head that this food is on the menu for reasons other than its flavor.

telesilla 3y ago
>this food is on the menu for reasons other than its flavor. Sure and this is ok. The same with the salad, right? And the mineral water on the drinks list. Like you, I support the genuinely necessary efforts for providing good access to alternatives to animal protein. Edit : I think the replies are misunderstanding. I'm saying, the vegan food is not for you. It's for vegans, like the salad is for those eating light. Like the mineral water is for those who don't want an alcoholic drink. Why do you care how it tastes? Please, can we keep it on the menu. I've been 3 decades advocating and celebrating more diversity in menus and it would be devastating to see losses from what has been achieved. Next step what so many are asking here: make it taste good
- Aaargh20318 3y ago
  But the mineral water and the salad don’t necessarily need to be labeled as vegetarian. I think the issue is that people don’t interpret the ‘vegetarian’ label on the menu as “this is OK for vegetarians to eat”, they interpret it as “we altered this dish to make it suitable for vegetarians”, and usually the latter means it’s not very good.
- zeroCalories 3y ago
  I don't think he implied otherwise. It was an opinion in reference to the study, which I agree with. If I'm at the store and grab a random snack off the shelf to try, I'll pretty much always put it back if the label says vegan because I've been burned by overpriced vegan snacks that taste like garbage so many times.
- the_af 3y ago
  I don't follow. Salad is on the menu because salad tastes good and some customers like the taste. Salad is not at all like an animal-based meal having its animal component replaced with something else. Likewise, mineral water is there because some people like drinking water and not alcohol or soda.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bigmattystyles 3y ago
I also like when something is labeled gluten-free, but it’s something that’s normally gluten-free. Instead of enticing me to it, it puts me off. Glutens are delicious.
- bigbillheck 3y ago
  > Glutens are delicious That's what your taste buds say but if your immune system ever decides to weigh in on this you might find yourself rethinking the matter.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    If gluten tasted like cowpats smell, nobody would ever find out if they were gluten intolerant.
- Swizec 3y ago
  “this bottle of water is gluten free, vegan friendly, vegetarian, keto friendly, paleo friendly, lactose free, and has zero calories” Yeah no shit … reminds me of ye olde xkcd about asbestos-free cereal: https://xkcd.com/641/ https://xkcd.com/641/
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  This can legit get pretty silly, but having heard celiac friends' horror stories about getting gluten'd from unexpected sources I'm definitely inclined to understand the "better safe than sorry" approach here. An explicit gluten-free option is always going to be the better choice for anyone in that camp, especially when the consequences of picking wrong can be pretty damn unpleasant.
  - dghughes 3y ago
    I just commented above similar story. But it's not better safe than sorry. As a friend of mine said it's become a joke everything is "gluten free" but it's not known if it actually is.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
AlecSchueler 3y ago
It's funny because this is the opposite of my experience. The vegan dishes tend to be spiced better and come with a better variety of vegetables/flavours. But I'm also curious to ask: what would you assume about a vegan restaurant?
- brigadier132 3y ago
  I forgot the name of it but I've been to that famous mexican vegan restaurant in the sf mission and the food was excellent and yeah, my expectation of the food from it is different than what I would expect from a non-vegan restaurant. My expectation from most restaurants serving vegan food is that they are just trying to have something so that vegan people technically can eat there but not necessarily that they will enjoy it.
  - steve_adams_86 3y ago
    Your expectation matches my general experience. I only eat those vegan options, and I rarely enjoy them. It’s not because vegan food can’t be good or because I don’t like vegan food; the restaurants and the people working them simply don’t care to make those options shine like other dishes. It’s not always true. It’s a safe guideline though. I’d say 4/5 cases it’s fair to expect the vegan menu option to be mediocre at best. This varies by locale too, though. It’s a little easier to find okay options in places with more vegan restaurants in general.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      I guess locale is a big part of it. I'm maybe spoiled in the Netherlands where quite a lot of people limit their meat intake and vegan options are plentiful. I'm not sure why my comment above deserved all the downvotes though, I was only sharing my own experience and asking a question.
  - kwyjibo1230 3y ago
    Gracias Madre may be the restaurant you're thinking of. I unfortunately heard it has closed recently
Aaargh20318 3y ago
There are basically two groups of vegetarian/vegan food: those dishes that simply happen to not contain any meat (or animal products in case of vegan) and dishes that traditionally do contain meat/animal products, but where it was replaced with something else to make the dish veg(an|etarian). I have no problem with the former group, those are usually just things that taste great. For the second group, it’s often something where the original tastes great but they ruined it by taking out the meat. I avoid those. If something is labeled as vegan or vegetarian I’m going to assume it’s in the second group.
- ip26 3y ago
  Exactly. Broccoli can be delicious, but is never marketed as “vegan”.
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  > I avoid those. You might want to reconsider. East and South-East Asia have been developing and using meat substitutes for at least several decades, if not centuries: they are based on soya, konjac, flour, mushroom fibres, etc, and they taste phenomenal. They may not precisely resemble the meat that they look like (there's mock mutton, mock shrimp, mock chicken, mock sausages, mock ham, mock duck, mock pork ribs, mock pretty much anything), but the texture, aroma, and taste are superb, and they work well both stir-fried, or as proteins in stews/gravies/curries. I think the Western effort to imitate meat is less likely to be successful than the already-existing Asian mock-meats industry: in the West, it seems people want their imitations to look exactly like meat, with all the blood and fat and everything, which is going to be significantly more expensive and taste a lot worse than something that merely resembles meat visually and letting the taste and texture be different. Consider the options here[1], for instance. [1]: https://www.friendlyvegetarian.com.sg/ https://www.friendlyvegetarian.com.sg/
  - seba_dos1 3y ago
    Exactly. These days I even prefer some of the mock meats (especially seitan); not because they imitate meat so well (they don't), but because I often find their taste and texture nicer and more consistent than that of real meat.
PaulHoule 3y ago
My food co-op had a "vegan chocolate cake" like https://traditionalplantbasedcooking.com/vintage-chocolate-vinegar-cake-vegan/?cn-reloaded=1 https://traditionalplantbasedcooking.com/vintage-chocolate-v... which was one of the best tasting snacks there is, but as they went upscale it became larger and more expensive and more elaborate. It reminds me of the Sandtaler which was a simple shortbread cookie (not vegan!) in the bakeries of Dresden in 1999, if I travelled in West Germany I would find cookies that were complications of the Sandtaler such as two Sandtalers stuck together with chocolate, but the simple cookie was too cheap for richer parts of Germany.
kyriakos 3y ago
Similarly when I see vegan products in a supermarket I always think they are overpriced for being specialty products.

telesilla 3y ago

>this food is on the menu for reasons other than its flavor. Sure and this is ok. The same with the salad, right? And the mineral water on the drinks list. Like you, I support the genuinely necessary efforts for providing good access to alternatives to animal protein. Edit : I think the replies are misunderstanding. I'm saying, the vegan food is not for you. It's for vegans, like the salad is for those eating light. Like the mineral water is for those who don't want an alcoholic drink. Why do you care how it tastes? Please, can we keep it on the menu. I've been 3 decades advocating and celebrating more diversity in menus and it would be devastating to see losses from what has been achieved. Next step what so many are asking here: make it taste good

Aaargh20318 3y ago
But the mineral water and the salad don’t necessarily need to be labeled as vegetarian. I think the issue is that people don’t interpret the ‘vegetarian’ label on the menu as “this is OK for vegetarians to eat”, they interpret it as “we altered this dish to make it suitable for vegetarians”, and usually the latter means it’s not very good.
zeroCalories 3y ago
I don't think he implied otherwise. It was an opinion in reference to the study, which I agree with. If I'm at the store and grab a random snack off the shelf to try, I'll pretty much always put it back if the label says vegan because I've been burned by overpriced vegan snacks that taste like garbage so many times.
the_af 3y ago
I don't follow. Salad is on the menu because salad tastes good and some customers like the taste. Salad is not at all like an animal-based meal having its animal component replaced with something else. Likewise, mineral water is there because some people like drinking water and not alcohol or soda.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

bigmattystyles 3y ago

I also like when something is labeled gluten-free, but it’s something that’s normally gluten-free. Instead of enticing me to it, it puts me off. Glutens are delicious.

bigbillheck 3y ago
> Glutens are delicious That's what your taste buds say but if your immune system ever decides to weigh in on this you might find yourself rethinking the matter.
- ben_w 3y ago
  If gluten tasted like cowpats smell, nobody would ever find out if they were gluten intolerant.
Swizec 3y ago
“this bottle of water is gluten free, vegan friendly, vegetarian, keto friendly, paleo friendly, lactose free, and has zero calories” Yeah no shit … reminds me of ye olde xkcd about asbestos-free cereal: https://xkcd.com/641/ https://xkcd.com/641/
spondylosaurus 3y ago
This can legit get pretty silly, but having heard celiac friends' horror stories about getting gluten'd from unexpected sources I'm definitely inclined to understand the "better safe than sorry" approach here. An explicit gluten-free option is always going to be the better choice for anyone in that camp, especially when the consequences of picking wrong can be pretty damn unpleasant.
- dghughes 3y ago
  I just commented above similar story. But it's not better safe than sorry. As a friend of mine said it's become a joke everything is "gluten free" but it's not known if it actually is.
PaulHoule 3y ago

AlecSchueler 3y ago

It's funny because this is the opposite of my experience. The vegan dishes tend to be spiced better and come with a better variety of vegetables/flavours. But I'm also curious to ask: what would you assume about a vegan restaurant?

brigadier132 3y ago
I forgot the name of it but I've been to that famous mexican vegan restaurant in the sf mission and the food was excellent and yeah, my expectation of the food from it is different than what I would expect from a non-vegan restaurant. My expectation from most restaurants serving vegan food is that they are just trying to have something so that vegan people technically can eat there but not necessarily that they will enjoy it.
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  Your expectation matches my general experience. I only eat those vegan options, and I rarely enjoy them. It’s not because vegan food can’t be good or because I don’t like vegan food; the restaurants and the people working them simply don’t care to make those options shine like other dishes. It’s not always true. It’s a safe guideline though. I’d say 4/5 cases it’s fair to expect the vegan menu option to be mediocre at best. This varies by locale too, though. It’s a little easier to find okay options in places with more vegan restaurants in general.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    I guess locale is a big part of it. I'm maybe spoiled in the Netherlands where quite a lot of people limit their meat intake and vegan options are plentiful. I'm not sure why my comment above deserved all the downvotes though, I was only sharing my own experience and asking a question.
- kwyjibo1230 3y ago
  Gracias Madre may be the restaurant you're thinking of. I unfortunately heard it has closed recently

Aaargh20318 3y ago

There are basically two groups of vegetarian/vegan food: those dishes that simply happen to not contain any meat (or animal products in case of vegan) and dishes that traditionally do contain meat/animal products, but where it was replaced with something else to make the dish veg(an|etarian). I have no problem with the former group, those are usually just things that taste great. For the second group, it’s often something where the original tastes great but they ruined it by taking out the meat. I avoid those. If something is labeled as vegan or vegetarian I’m going to assume it’s in the second group.

ip26 3y ago
Exactly. Broccoli can be delicious, but is never marketed as “vegan”.
delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> I avoid those. You might want to reconsider. East and South-East Asia have been developing and using meat substitutes for at least several decades, if not centuries: they are based on soya, konjac, flour, mushroom fibres, etc, and they taste phenomenal. They may not precisely resemble the meat that they look like (there's mock mutton, mock shrimp, mock chicken, mock sausages, mock ham, mock duck, mock pork ribs, mock pretty much anything), but the texture, aroma, and taste are superb, and they work well both stir-fried, or as proteins in stews/gravies/curries. I think the Western effort to imitate meat is less likely to be successful than the already-existing Asian mock-meats industry: in the West, it seems people want their imitations to look exactly like meat, with all the blood and fat and everything, which is going to be significantly more expensive and taste a lot worse than something that merely resembles meat visually and letting the taste and texture be different. Consider the options here[1], for instance. [1]: https://www.friendlyvegetarian.com.sg/ https://www.friendlyvegetarian.com.sg/
- seba_dos1 3y ago
  Exactly. These days I even prefer some of the mock meats (especially seitan); not because they imitate meat so well (they don't), but because I often find their taste and texture nicer and more consistent than that of real meat.

PaulHoule 3y ago

My food co-op had a "vegan chocolate cake" like https://traditionalplantbasedcooking.com/vintage-chocolate-vinegar-cake-vegan/?cn-reloaded=1 https://traditionalplantbasedcooking.com/vintage-chocolate-v... which was one of the best tasting snacks there is, but as they went upscale it became larger and more expensive and more elaborate. It reminds me of the Sandtaler which was a simple shortbread cookie (not vegan!) in the bakeries of Dresden in 1999, if I travelled in West Germany I would find cookies that were complications of the Sandtaler such as two Sandtalers stuck together with chocolate, but the simple cookie was too cheap for richer parts of Germany.

kyriakos 3y ago

Similarly when I see vegan products in a supermarket I always think they are overpriced for being specialty products.