6 ms·

Self=driving cars could be important, if we used them in ways that didn't play to the traditional car narratives. An always-connected vehicle could start to de

by hakfoo 3y ago

Self=driving cars could be important, if we used them in ways that didn't play to the traditional car narratives. An always-connected vehicle could start to deliver some of the "system intelligence" we see in more controlled public-transit platforms. Self-driving cars should be smart enough to say "You specified a destination downtown. I will wait 4 minutes 23 seconds before departure because we'll have a peak cohort of people driving downtown, and can maximize fuel economy by drafting and traveling as a convoy." Potentially we even get to the point where the cars couple together and form transient "trains" to to spread the wear on the drive systems. We could even have controls like "A parade/diplomatic mission/emergency vehicle is travelling down XYZ Street; to ensure their security, a two-block radius around it been flagged as no-go for any autonomous vehicles."

baz00 3y ago
See now you're getting to the point but the point is that public transport is broken so we're patching it with cars. Perhaps we should be fixing that instead?
- HPMOR 3y ago
  This “we” you speak of is non-existent. It’s about individuals taking actions to fix the injustices and errors they see in the system. For all his faults Elon Musk does not sit on the sidelines. What you see as a transgression by him is nonetheless action, and it will not be fixed until you, or some other individual brings it upon themselves to fix it.
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    If only individuals could pool their ideas and resources for collective action, maybe even without a profit motive. We could call it a government.
  - JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
    > > For all his faults Elon Musk does not sit on the sidelines He sits on the sidelines for all the billions of problems which are not heavily subsidised by the government in one way or another. The fearless QB who only takes the field when the team has a 48 points lead and for Uncle Sam's team with uncapped salary ceiling. A true underdog story. Move over Kurt Warner. Not.
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    Say what you will about ISIS but they do not sit on the sidelines. This absurdist comparison isn't to say Musk is as bad as ISIS, but rather action shouldn't be confused with helping.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  I've seen this objection a lot and I don't really understand where it comes from. The only people who can fix public transit are the government and the public. Autonomous vehicles aren't being developed by either of these groups and in no way prevent them from fixing transit. What's the argument then? Is everyone expected to wait around until public transit is fixed before they work on something else? AVs are complementary to public transit. You're not going to take a robotaxi from SF to SJ. You might take one to the Caltrain station on either end and avoid needing a personal vehicle at all.
  - jprete 3y ago
    AVs aren't complementary to public transit, though. From the customer perspective, the only difference between an AV car service and a taxi service is that one of them has a human driver. Why would any taxi customer take a three-leg trip from SF to SJ with two robotaxis and the Caltrain when they could have a single-shot transportation solution door to door?
    - AlotOfReading 3y ago
      Because the robotaxi journey is $80 (current Uber price) vs $20 ($10.50 Caltrain + $10 in taxis) one-way. Also the trains have bathrooms, faster, and for a lot of people, you can walk at one end.
  - ForestCritter 3y ago
    public transit simply cannot go in the direction everybody needs it, when they need it in a straight route. It used to take me approx 3 hours a day, sometimes more to get to an from a job that was a 25 minute drive away.10 hours more time for myself a week is freedom to me.
    - hakfoo 3y ago
      To maximize the value of public transit, you need a strongly integrated economy. It would help if local leadership could say "You're building a business that has high flexibility in where you site it, so you should place it near a transport hub, rather than off in a suburb that causes a longer average commute for everyone." Yes, you can't do this for every business-- some have natural dependencies on specific site characteristics, but those seem likely to shape the rest of the city's transport decisions (how many cities have major thoroughfares that parallel existing heavy rail, for example)

by hakfoo 3y ago

baz00 3y ago

See now you're getting to the point but the point is that public transport is broken so we're patching it with cars. Perhaps we should be fixing that instead?

HPMOR 3y ago
This “we” you speak of is non-existent. It’s about individuals taking actions to fix the injustices and errors they see in the system. For all his faults Elon Musk does not sit on the sidelines. What you see as a transgression by him is nonetheless action, and it will not be fixed until you, or some other individual brings it upon themselves to fix it.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  If only individuals could pool their ideas and resources for collective action, maybe even without a profit motive. We could call it a government.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > For all his faults Elon Musk does not sit on the sidelines He sits on the sidelines for all the billions of problems which are not heavily subsidised by the government in one way or another. The fearless QB who only takes the field when the team has a 48 points lead and for Uncle Sam's team with uncapped salary ceiling. A true underdog story. Move over Kurt Warner. Not.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  Say what you will about ISIS but they do not sit on the sidelines. This absurdist comparison isn't to say Musk is as bad as ISIS, but rather action shouldn't be confused with helping.
AlotOfReading 3y ago
I've seen this objection a lot and I don't really understand where it comes from. The only people who can fix public transit are the government and the public. Autonomous vehicles aren't being developed by either of these groups and in no way prevent them from fixing transit. What's the argument then? Is everyone expected to wait around until public transit is fixed before they work on something else? AVs are complementary to public transit. You're not going to take a robotaxi from SF to SJ. You might take one to the Caltrain station on either end and avoid needing a personal vehicle at all.
- jprete 3y ago
  AVs aren't complementary to public transit, though. From the customer perspective, the only difference between an AV car service and a taxi service is that one of them has a human driver. Why would any taxi customer take a three-leg trip from SF to SJ with two robotaxis and the Caltrain when they could have a single-shot transportation solution door to door?
  - AlotOfReading 3y ago
    Because the robotaxi journey is $80 (current Uber price) vs $20 ($10.50 Caltrain + $10 in taxis) one-way. Also the trains have bathrooms, faster, and for a lot of people, you can walk at one end.
- ForestCritter 3y ago
  public transit simply cannot go in the direction everybody needs it, when they need it in a straight route. It used to take me approx 3 hours a day, sometimes more to get to an from a job that was a 25 minute drive away.10 hours more time for myself a week is freedom to me.
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    To maximize the value of public transit, you need a strongly integrated economy. It would help if local leadership could say "You're building a business that has high flexibility in where you site it, so you should place it near a transport hub, rather than off in a suburb that causes a longer average commute for everyone." Yes, you can't do this for every business-- some have natural dependencies on specific site characteristics, but those seem likely to shape the rest of the city's transport decisions (how many cities have major thoroughfares that parallel existing heavy rail, for example)