3 ms·

Do you treat all traffic participants with same scrutiny? I’d rather have distracted driver on autopilot over distracted driver in a car with crude ADAS.

jacquesm 3y ago
It's not a binary choice: there are also simply normal, non-intoxicated, non smartphone distracted drivers.
- wilg 3y ago
  That's not the point. The point is there are many less safe drivers on the roads than people in Teslas supervising FSD. As far as anyone knows there's been like, maybe one crash on FSD and no deaths. (There are Autopilot/ADAS related deaths, though not a shocking number relatively, but that is not the same type of system and is also deployed on many other vehicles.)
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Where are they? Taking a driving exam?
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    No, they're just your everyday normal drivers. Tens of millions of them. Most people - surprise - actually just follow the rules. That there are also many that do not means you're looking at a venn diagram where only the fraction 'drives a Tesla' and 'would be an unsafe driver' that overlaps is affected positively whereas those that 'drives a Tesla' and 'would be a responsible driver' may well be the larger fragment. And it says nothing at all about the population at large given that a Tesla is an expensive piece of kit.
  - xboxnolifes 3y ago
    Are you really trying to suggest that every driver is intoxicated or on their phone? Do you drive?
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      I drive lots. I'm saying that there are very little of perfect drivers. Even without phone and alcohol, which is a criminal negligence - there's kids, partners, mind wandering, daydreaming, poor vehicle maintenance, crap road designs or surfaces, medical conditions, vision impairments, weather, food, insects, etc which on overall means we are generally very distracted and impaired.
justinclift 3y ago
> Do you treat all traffic participants with same scrutiny? Yes. Many people who've been riding motorcycles more than about 6 months or so (aka and lived), have learned to. A few years on from that, defensive^W paranoid riding is well ingrained.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  I still drive like I rode my motorcycle: looking at every car on the road and trying to figure out how they could kill me, and then responding accordingly.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That's the only way. Because it doesn't take a huge percentage of distracted drivers to pose a concrete danger. But I've seen more than one Tesla making weird moves and given how many of those there are here I'm not quite sure whether that is more or less frequent than with other brands but what I do notice is the severity of the moves and they tend to be pretty wild. As in: half a lane wide sudden moves. Of course that could just as easily be Tesla drivers that are themselves in control of their car. But I strongly suspect FSD to be at the root of these, they certainly don't look like the kind of thing a driver would do voluntarily, but as a panic response to a vehicle doing something out of the ordinary it would match just fine. What really gets me is that people would then not return their vehicle as defective (or never ever again use such a feature). I sold my previous car after it twice false triggered on the auto emergency braking failure and I would expect other car owners to do the same thing.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    (Responding to jacquesm because thread depth exceeded) > half a lane wide sudden moves In 10k autopilot km's I've never seen that. Yes there is some breaking sometimes, but no swerves yet. And yes panic breaking pisses me off and lane departure alarms almost caused to rage and return the car.

jacquesm 3y ago

It's not a binary choice: there are also simply normal, non-intoxicated, non smartphone distracted drivers.

wilg 3y ago
That's not the point. The point is there are many less safe drivers on the roads than people in Teslas supervising FSD. As far as anyone knows there's been like, maybe one crash on FSD and no deaths. (There are Autopilot/ADAS related deaths, though not a shocking number relatively, but that is not the same type of system and is also deployed on many other vehicles.)
dzhiurgis 3y ago
Where are they? Taking a driving exam?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  No, they're just your everyday normal drivers. Tens of millions of them. Most people - surprise - actually just follow the rules. That there are also many that do not means you're looking at a venn diagram where only the fraction 'drives a Tesla' and 'would be an unsafe driver' that overlaps is affected positively whereas those that 'drives a Tesla' and 'would be a responsible driver' may well be the larger fragment. And it says nothing at all about the population at large given that a Tesla is an expensive piece of kit.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  Are you really trying to suggest that every driver is intoxicated or on their phone? Do you drive?
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    I drive lots. I'm saying that there are very little of perfect drivers. Even without phone and alcohol, which is a criminal negligence - there's kids, partners, mind wandering, daydreaming, poor vehicle maintenance, crap road designs or surfaces, medical conditions, vision impairments, weather, food, insects, etc which on overall means we are generally very distracted and impaired.

justinclift 3y ago

> Do you treat all traffic participants with same scrutiny? Yes. Many people who've been riding motorcycles more than about 6 months or so (aka and lived), have learned to. A few years on from that, defensive^W paranoid riding is well ingrained.

TheCleric 3y ago
I still drive like I rode my motorcycle: looking at every car on the road and trying to figure out how they could kill me, and then responding accordingly.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That's the only way. Because it doesn't take a huge percentage of distracted drivers to pose a concrete danger. But I've seen more than one Tesla making weird moves and given how many of those there are here I'm not quite sure whether that is more or less frequent than with other brands but what I do notice is the severity of the moves and they tend to be pretty wild. As in: half a lane wide sudden moves. Of course that could just as easily be Tesla drivers that are themselves in control of their car. But I strongly suspect FSD to be at the root of these, they certainly don't look like the kind of thing a driver would do voluntarily, but as a panic response to a vehicle doing something out of the ordinary it would match just fine. What really gets me is that people would then not return their vehicle as defective (or never ever again use such a feature). I sold my previous car after it twice false triggered on the auto emergency braking failure and I would expect other car owners to do the same thing.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  (Responding to jacquesm because thread depth exceeded) > half a lane wide sudden moves In 10k autopilot km's I've never seen that. Yes there is some breaking sometimes, but no swerves yet. And yes panic breaking pisses me off and lane departure alarms almost caused to rage and return the car.