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It still blows my mind that so many people are okay with beta testing software that controls a several-tonne metal box on wheels moving at 100km/h+ on shared ro

It still blows my mind that so many people are okay with beta testing software that controls a several-tonne metal box on wheels moving at 100km/h+ on shared roadways.

Xenoamorphous 3y ago
Right? I get trying beta ir even alpha versions of inconsequential software, but something that can easily kill me? What are these people thinking? It’s mind boggling.
baz00 3y ago
We're not okay with it. We are however beaten down by every brainwashed fanboy, marketer, investor and news outlet pushing this bubble along to drive some pissy revenue stream though. That includes those of us who worked on safety critical engineering years ago and know exactly what the fuck we are talking about.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 3y ago
  So? At least they have a driving license. That's not something we can say about this pile of crap. It cost me 2 years of my life, a small fortune at the time and a lot of hassle from the authorities before being allowed to pass so I could join in on this thing called 'traffic' with a vehicle. And I thought that was just fine. Now we get this stuff that is absolutely unverified and that is known to have issues released into traffic as though it is perfectly normal.
  - idopmstuff 3y ago
    Why did it take you two years and a small fortune? It took me some reasonable number of hours over ~6 months (at the time in CA you could get your learner's permit at 15.5 and license at 16) and a couple hundred bucks for a driving instructor.
    - beAbU 3y ago
      In many countries you can get your learner's at 16, and a full license at 18. Hence 2 years.
      - erik_seaberg 3y ago
        Yeah, I took a free weekend class in high school, maybe twelve hours total. I barely remember taking the test at age sixteen, yet it’s valid decades later. I would be pretty surprised if FSD couldn’t outperform me, except for edge cases like “this guy flagging us down, what the heck does he want us to do?”
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Because that's what I could afford on my then still meager salary. 45 / hour for lessons, 45 lessons, one every two weeks. In Europe the examinations are a bit more strict than in the United States and at the time you could only start your lessons when you were 18.
      - ryukafalz 3y ago
        > In Europe the examinations are a bit more strict than in the United States As someone living in the US, I wish they were stricter here - I see lots of frankly dangerous behavior on the road.
- baz00 3y ago
  Even the stupidest meat sack is orders of magnitudes better at driving when the constraint system they are working within is violated.
- Zetobal 3y ago
  Under more than ideal conditions... FSD is maybe at par.
- beAbU 3y ago
  A human can be held liable for their actions, and as such, the "average person" might exercise an amount of responsibility equal to the risk of liability. Drive slow around schools, but drive like a hooligan around a racetrack. Etc. A Tesla, or any robot for that matter, cannot be held liable for it's actions.
resolutebat 3y ago
> It still blows my mind that so many people are okay with easily distracted hairless apes controlling a several-tonne metal box on wheels moving at 100km/h+ on shared roadways. FTFY. We're socially conditioned to ignore these risks, but it's still objectively insane that I can easily kill myself, my entire family, and another group of innocent bystanders by rotating a steering wheel a few inches in the wrong direction. (I still don't and would never use Tesla FSD, though.)
NelsonMinar 3y ago
It's not just the people who own the cars; everyone in proximity to a Tesla is beta testing their software.
Tepix 3y ago
Ok, how is this different than, say, the lane assist in a Kia? It fails often (in particular when you're not on a highway) so you have to remain alert.
tim333 3y ago
Tesla say their thing "crashes 0.31 times per million miles, a dramatic decrease from the average American, who crashes 1.53 times every million miles." (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/#:~:text=According%20to%20this%20report%2C%20the,1.53%20times%20every%20million%20miles https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/#:~:te....) So maybe we should worry more about the average American?
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  > Tesla say their thing "<insert arbitrary cherry-picked stat here>" <insert link to Tesla fanboi website here> No, I don't believe any of those p-hacked/biased stats that conveniently portray something, that is sold as BETA SOFTWARE by a company with a multi-billion market cap and a world-class marketing division, to be "safer" than an average driver. FWIW I'm also not thrilled with the idea of the average person being permitted to get behind the wheel of a 5 tonne death machine, either. > So maybe we should worry more about the average American? As an outsider (Australian) watching the American empire decline so rapidly in recent years, I assure you I'm also quite worried about America, and the average American.
  - tim333 3y ago
    Well yeah, I don't totally trust Tesla either. On the other hand I think it's very likely self driving tech will become safer than human eventually so it'll work out ok.

It still blows my mind that so many people are okay with beta testing software that controls a several-tonne metal box on wheels moving at 100km/h+ on shared roadways.

Xenoamorphous 3y ago

Right? I get trying beta ir even alpha versions of inconsequential software, but something that can easily kill me? What are these people thinking? It’s mind boggling.

baz00 3y ago

We're not okay with it. We are however beaten down by every brainwashed fanboy, marketer, investor and news outlet pushing this bubble along to drive some pissy revenue stream though. That includes those of us who worked on safety critical engineering years ago and know exactly what the fuck we are talking about.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

[flagged]

jacquesm 3y ago
So? At least they have a driving license. That's not something we can say about this pile of crap. It cost me 2 years of my life, a small fortune at the time and a lot of hassle from the authorities before being allowed to pass so I could join in on this thing called 'traffic' with a vehicle. And I thought that was just fine. Now we get this stuff that is absolutely unverified and that is known to have issues released into traffic as though it is perfectly normal.
- idopmstuff 3y ago
  Why did it take you two years and a small fortune? It took me some reasonable number of hours over ~6 months (at the time in CA you could get your learner's permit at 15.5 and license at 16) and a couple hundred bucks for a driving instructor.
  - beAbU 3y ago
    In many countries you can get your learner's at 16, and a full license at 18. Hence 2 years.
    - erik_seaberg 3y ago
      Yeah, I took a free weekend class in high school, maybe twelve hours total. I barely remember taking the test at age sixteen, yet it’s valid decades later. I would be pretty surprised if FSD couldn’t outperform me, except for edge cases like “this guy flagging us down, what the heck does he want us to do?”
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Because that's what I could afford on my then still meager salary. 45 / hour for lessons, 45 lessons, one every two weeks. In Europe the examinations are a bit more strict than in the United States and at the time you could only start your lessons when you were 18.
    - ryukafalz 3y ago
      > In Europe the examinations are a bit more strict than in the United States As someone living in the US, I wish they were stricter here - I see lots of frankly dangerous behavior on the road.
baz00 3y ago
Even the stupidest meat sack is orders of magnitudes better at driving when the constraint system they are working within is violated.
Zetobal 3y ago
Under more than ideal conditions... FSD is maybe at par.
beAbU 3y ago
A human can be held liable for their actions, and as such, the "average person" might exercise an amount of responsibility equal to the risk of liability. Drive slow around schools, but drive like a hooligan around a racetrack. Etc. A Tesla, or any robot for that matter, cannot be held liable for it's actions.

resolutebat 3y ago

> It still blows my mind that so many people are okay with easily distracted hairless apes controlling a several-tonne metal box on wheels moving at 100km/h+ on shared roadways. FTFY. We're socially conditioned to ignore these risks, but it's still objectively insane that I can easily kill myself, my entire family, and another group of innocent bystanders by rotating a steering wheel a few inches in the wrong direction. (I still don't and would never use Tesla FSD, though.)

NelsonMinar 3y ago

It's not just the people who own the cars; everyone in proximity to a Tesla is beta testing their software.

Tepix 3y ago

Ok, how is this different than, say, the lane assist in a Kia? It fails often (in particular when you're not on a highway) so you have to remain alert.

tim333 3y ago

Tesla say their thing "crashes 0.31 times per million miles, a dramatic decrease from the average American, who crashes 1.53 times every million miles." (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/#:~:text=According%20to%20this%20report%2C%20the,1.53%20times%20every%20million%20miles https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/#:~:te....) So maybe we should worry more about the average American?

gameoverhumans 3y ago
> Tesla say their thing "<insert arbitrary cherry-picked stat here>" <insert link to Tesla fanboi website here> No, I don't believe any of those p-hacked/biased stats that conveniently portray something, that is sold as BETA SOFTWARE by a company with a multi-billion market cap and a world-class marketing division, to be "safer" than an average driver. FWIW I'm also not thrilled with the idea of the average person being permitted to get behind the wheel of a 5 tonne death machine, either. > So maybe we should worry more about the average American? As an outsider (Australian) watching the American empire decline so rapidly in recent years, I assure you I'm also quite worried about America, and the average American.
- tim333 3y ago
  Well yeah, I don't totally trust Tesla either. On the other hand I think it's very likely self driving tech will become safer than human eventually so it'll work out ok.