4 ms·

TLDR: kerosene is really terrible for global warming. If "fire starter" logs are this much of a problem, imagine how much global warming is caused by "smudge po

TLDR: kerosene is really terrible for global warming. If "fire starter" logs are this much of a problem, imagine how much global warming is caused by "smudge pots" - sooty, horrifically polluting burners that citrus farmers burn kerosene, used motor oil, hydraulic fluid, etc. in to try and keep their fruit from freezing during a cold snap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smudge_pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smudge_pot We really, really need to stop giving agriculture a pass on emissions.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
actionfromafar 3y ago
... and water usage.
mschuster91 3y ago
> We really, really need to stop giving agriculture a pass on emissions. Not just emissions, other externalities as well. It's madness to grow alfalfa in California, only to ship it to Saudi-Arabia for cattle feed. Or for Amazon rainforest to be burned down to grow soybeans that are used to feed cattle on fields that were priorly used for soybeans and then ship the meat to the US and Europe. The problem is that consumers want fresh <everything> 24/7/365, and it would use up enormous amounts of political capital to get that under control.
- labster 3y ago
  Honestly in the California case, the problem is much more about senior water rights than it is about capitalism or freshness demands.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Of course the problem is capitalism, to be precise: the lack of a mandate to price in externalities - not just water rights, but also CO2 and other pollution, destruction of extremely large swaths of land or devastation of biodiversity by ever larger monoculture farms - into the actual sticker price of products. Something like the alfalfa or Brazilian meat trade should be exorbitantly expensive, as should be stuff like strawberries from Morocco or cut flowers from Kenya to Europe. The emissions associated with these products are absurdly large, and yet it's cheap enough to be worthwile.
    - _3u10 3y ago
      Capitalism actually fixes that, Brazilian beef and argentina and paraguay for that matter too are extraordinarily cheap because tariffs make them expensive in the US / EU. Luckily we like beef so we eat it all ourselves. You get moral superiority we get cheap high quality meat, everyone wins.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        I don't think there's much demand for South American meat here in Denmark, but vegetables and especially fruit from Africa and South America is easily affordable and available when it's not in season in Europe. Capitalism has failed to take account of the environmental cost.
        _3u10 3y ago
        Fruits and veg are generally twice the price in the EU, stuff that is grown largely or only here is more like 4x the price in the EU. Coffee, avocados, etc. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Paraguay&city1=Asuncion&country2=Denmark&city2=Copenhagen&displayCurrency=EUR https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... These prices are a little high too, if you drive to Clorinda in Argentina (15 - 20 mins), it's about half the price. EU Cattle farmers disagree with you, without tariffs your ranches would be crushed, or more politely made redundant. It's pretty expensive, https://www.dw.com/en/what-does-eu-mercosur-trade-deal-mean-for-ranchers/a-66203231 https://www.dw.com/en/what-does-eu-mercosur-trade-deal-mean-... "This would have a very negative effect on the price our producers receive, and this would discourage farmers from taking over farms," said Benoit Cassart, secretary-general of the Belgian Cattle Trade Federation. "Premium, high-quality meat holds great value in Europe. That's not the case in China, for example. We are hopeful that the European market will open up to Brazilian meat with the finalization of the agreement," Marina told DW. "That doesn't mean they are producing something bad. But if they must remove the Amazon rainforests to produce meat and send it to Europe, and this makes our green pasture redundant, it makes no sense at all," he told DW.
        3y ago
userbinator 3y ago
From the description of that article you linked: This one has been recently lit off, as the exhaust on a fully hot pot becomes almost invisible with a mere hint of red/orange flame. They're normally not that sooty.
paganel 3y ago
And then what should we put on our tables? And at what cost?
- _3u10 3y ago
  Bugs, they will be supplied with your pod. Your pod likely won’t have a table. You will eat the bugs and live in the pods.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

actionfromafar 3y ago

... and water usage.

mschuster91 3y ago

> We really, really need to stop giving agriculture a pass on emissions. Not just emissions, other externalities as well. It's madness to grow alfalfa in California, only to ship it to Saudi-Arabia for cattle feed. Or for Amazon rainforest to be burned down to grow soybeans that are used to feed cattle on fields that were priorly used for soybeans and then ship the meat to the US and Europe. The problem is that consumers want fresh <everything> 24/7/365, and it would use up enormous amounts of political capital to get that under control.

labster 3y ago
Honestly in the California case, the problem is much more about senior water rights than it is about capitalism or freshness demands.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Of course the problem is capitalism, to be precise: the lack of a mandate to price in externalities - not just water rights, but also CO2 and other pollution, destruction of extremely large swaths of land or devastation of biodiversity by ever larger monoculture farms - into the actual sticker price of products. Something like the alfalfa or Brazilian meat trade should be exorbitantly expensive, as should be stuff like strawberries from Morocco or cut flowers from Kenya to Europe. The emissions associated with these products are absurdly large, and yet it's cheap enough to be worthwile.
  - _3u10 3y ago
    Capitalism actually fixes that, Brazilian beef and argentina and paraguay for that matter too are extraordinarily cheap because tariffs make them expensive in the US / EU. Luckily we like beef so we eat it all ourselves. You get moral superiority we get cheap high quality meat, everyone wins.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      I don't think there's much demand for South American meat here in Denmark, but vegetables and especially fruit from Africa and South America is easily affordable and available when it's not in season in Europe. Capitalism has failed to take account of the environmental cost.
      - _3u10 3y ago
        Fruits and veg are generally twice the price in the EU, stuff that is grown largely or only here is more like 4x the price in the EU. Coffee, avocados, etc. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Paraguay&city1=Asuncion&country2=Denmark&city2=Copenhagen&displayCurrency=EUR https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... These prices are a little high too, if you drive to Clorinda in Argentina (15 - 20 mins), it's about half the price. EU Cattle farmers disagree with you, without tariffs your ranches would be crushed, or more politely made redundant. It's pretty expensive, https://www.dw.com/en/what-does-eu-mercosur-trade-deal-mean-for-ranchers/a-66203231 https://www.dw.com/en/what-does-eu-mercosur-trade-deal-mean-... "This would have a very negative effect on the price our producers receive, and this would discourage farmers from taking over farms," said Benoit Cassart, secretary-general of the Belgian Cattle Trade Federation. "Premium, high-quality meat holds great value in Europe. That's not the case in China, for example. We are hopeful that the European market will open up to Brazilian meat with the finalization of the agreement," Marina told DW. "That doesn't mean they are producing something bad. But if they must remove the Amazon rainforests to produce meat and send it to Europe, and this makes our green pasture redundant, it makes no sense at all," he told DW.
        3y ago

userbinator 3y ago

From the description of that article you linked: This one has been recently lit off, as the exhaust on a fully hot pot becomes almost invisible with a mere hint of red/orange flame. They're normally not that sooty.

paganel 3y ago

And then what should we put on our tables? And at what cost?

_3u10 3y ago
Bugs, they will be supplied with your pod. Your pod likely won’t have a table. You will eat the bugs and live in the pods.