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> in reality we need degrowth and permaculture Personally, I wholeheartedly agree. Do you see degrowth as a realistic possibility? How would this happen in tod

> in reality we need degrowth and permaculture Personally, I wholeheartedly agree. Do you see degrowth as a realistic possibility? How would this happen in today's democracies with economic systems relying on GDP growth?

picture 3y ago
I believe that optimism is the only solution. Yes, it's pretty bleak, we got economic systems relying on GDP growth with corporations acting as governments, but if we decide "degrowth isn't realistic" then we automatically lose. A tactic that "big oil" et al especially likes to use is to paralyze action that could've been effective if acted on, with doomerism like "oh the climate is too messed up to do anything about, why bother" By believing and spreading optimism, we will see improvement. Which is also why I'm leaving comments like this haha.
eulgro 3y ago
How would it happen? On a global level, it don't think it will. But that doesn't prevent us from applying it on a local or personal level.
- picture 3y ago
  You reminded me! Yes, it needs to start from the local level, in an organic way. But doing anything locally and organically is already winning (participating in local communities is a sorta solution to problems like logistics and politics)
palata 3y ago
> Do you see degrowth as a realistic possibility? Degrowth will happen whether we want it or not. Because fossil fuels are not unlimited, and we are close to the global production peak. We don't have any technology that can remotely replace fossil fuels, and we don't remotely have the infrastructure anyway (it's not just about cars: everything relies on oil). There are two ways: chosen degrowth is called "soberty". That's not super sexy, but the alternative (where we don't do it ourselves) is called "poverty". We need to start changing society to degrowth in a controlled manner, for our own sake.
- badtension 3y ago
  People have been hearing "more is better" their whole lives, hell, I was promised vacations twice a year, sports car, big comfortable house. I won't get that and I am ok with it but that's not a popular stance I am afraid. My latest train of thought is going semi off-grid just in case degrowth hits us too rapidly. Big cities will not be fun.
  - palata 3y ago
    I completely agree. Almost nobody genuinely wants less. I just came to realize that if we don't degrow smartly, then I will eventually have even less.

picture 3y ago

I believe that optimism is the only solution. Yes, it's pretty bleak, we got economic systems relying on GDP growth with corporations acting as governments, but if we decide "degrowth isn't realistic" then we automatically lose. A tactic that "big oil" et al especially likes to use is to paralyze action that could've been effective if acted on, with doomerism like "oh the climate is too messed up to do anything about, why bother" By believing and spreading optimism, we will see improvement. Which is also why I'm leaving comments like this haha.

eulgro 3y ago

How would it happen? On a global level, it don't think it will. But that doesn't prevent us from applying it on a local or personal level.

picture 3y ago
You reminded me! Yes, it needs to start from the local level, in an organic way. But doing anything locally and organically is already winning (participating in local communities is a sorta solution to problems like logistics and politics)

palata 3y ago

> Do you see degrowth as a realistic possibility? Degrowth will happen whether we want it or not. Because fossil fuels are not unlimited, and we are close to the global production peak. We don't have any technology that can remotely replace fossil fuels, and we don't remotely have the infrastructure anyway (it's not just about cars: everything relies on oil). There are two ways: chosen degrowth is called "soberty". That's not super sexy, but the alternative (where we don't do it ourselves) is called "poverty". We need to start changing society to degrowth in a controlled manner, for our own sake.

badtension 3y ago
People have been hearing "more is better" their whole lives, hell, I was promised vacations twice a year, sports car, big comfortable house. I won't get that and I am ok with it but that's not a popular stance I am afraid. My latest train of thought is going semi off-grid just in case degrowth hits us too rapidly. Big cities will not be fun.
- palata 3y ago
  I completely agree. Almost nobody genuinely wants less. I just came to realize that if we don't degrow smartly, then I will eventually have even less.