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As somebody who's worked in games as a programmer, it's hard to have too much sympathy for voice actors, when all the (almost entirely non-unionised) artists, a

As somebody who's worked in games as a programmer, it's hard to have too much sympathy for voice actors, when all the (almost entirely non-unionised) artists, animators, programmers, QA, and more have put up with so much overwork ('crunch periods') and undercompensation, along with constant threat of sudden lay-offs (usually studio closures) since, well, before games had voice acting. A strike could be an additional threat to the projects and therefore jobs of those non-unionised workers. (Yes, maybe the rest of the industry should have unionised a long time ago, but it hasn't happened) Voice actors are important these days, but they aren't the 'movie stars' of gaming. The real stars of game development are usually unknown individuals developing internal tools and asset workflows, endlessly tweaking numbers to try and make a game 'feel' just right, doing CPU/GPU profiling and optimization, or doing tedious-but-essential QA work, tracking down those hard-to-replicate bugs. And not everyone is in agreement on the whole AI issue. The hype/fear bubble is likely to deflate, and IMHO, AI-based tools are more likely to empower creators than replace them.

badwolf 3y ago
You should consider unionizing.
komali2 3y ago
Perhaps instead of anger at people trying to improve their material conditions, you could choose instead to ask the unionized people for helping setting up a union for your profession?
vore 3y ago
I don't think the answer to mistreatment is for non-unionized workers to pull the unionized workers down into the crab pot with them -- at the end of the day, we are all labor (unless you control the capital), and infighting instead of solidarity only makes labor's bargaining position worse.
- alickz 3y ago
  I could see infighting happening between the unions Some fictional programmer union wants AI, actors union does not want AI Both strike, who wins?
- ecf 3y ago
  > infighting instead of solidarity Well, it would be easier for non-unionized workers to empathize with unionized if they stopped the ridiculous cancelling/blackmailing/ostracizing of workers who take up “union work”. It’s beyond anticompetitive to go on strike while simultaneously making it career suicide for a young professional who just graduated or something from accepting what would otherwise be a career defining opportunity. The WAG is notorious for this.
  - vore 3y ago
    Like it or not, unions have to come down pretty hard on strikebreakers, since they undermine their bargaining position. If the purpose of a strike is to withhold labor from the employer, someone who is otherwise providing labor is directly sabotaging their goal.
edent 3y ago
Sounds like you should unionise then?
crazygringo 3y ago
You do realize that while the artists, animators, and programmers you're talking about actually make a liveable salary on that, the voice actors mostly don't? It's gig work that you're incredibly lucky to get a consistent amount of. And it takes a lot of training. A lot of these people are servers at a restaurant or drive for Uber to make ends meet. They're not making programming-level money on the side, nowhere even close. The union is trying to ensure that the minimum payments for voice actors are reasonable, and that if you do get lucky enough to get a decent amount of work during the year, that it is something you can live on. (And remember that you'll probably audition for 50+ projects for every 1 project you land.)
- bluescrn 3y ago
  > You do realize that while the artists, animators, and programmers you're talking about actually make a liveable salary on that, the voice actors mostly don't? They're working full-time, long hours (lots of unpaid overtime), and pay often isn't great even for programmers, but especially for non-programming roles (outside of the largest/most successful studios, mostly in the US, where it can be a lot better). I'm sure they'd also love to do part-time gig work and be guaranteed a full-time income from it, but that's usually not an option. Many programmers leave games after a while for better-paying work, less stress, and/or more job security elsewhere.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    I don't get what you're saying. Yes conditions could be better for programmers, but they're nowhere near as bad as for voice actors. > I'm sure they'd also love to do part-time gig work and be guaranteed a full-time income from it, but that's usually not an option. And voice actors would love that too. But they don't get it, that's the point. And "part time" is hiding the fact that, as I said elsewhere, they're often preparing for 50 auditions to get a single gig. It's not like there's an agency that just hands out work.
corinroyal 3y ago
So you're upset that people who didn't bother to form a union are being mistreated, while those who did form a union are doing better? And you appear to want sympathy? Wow. HN really is the best site on the Internet for unintentional comedy. I remember trying to organize Bay Area tech workers in the '90s. Y'all were not receptive at all. The attitude seemed to be that tech workers are too precious for a union. Those were for garbagemen, not professionals. Enjoy your working conditions. It's nice when results are proportional to effort.

badwolf 3y ago

You should consider unionizing.

komali2 3y ago

Perhaps instead of anger at people trying to improve their material conditions, you could choose instead to ask the unionized people for helping setting up a union for your profession?

vore 3y ago

I don't think the answer to mistreatment is for non-unionized workers to pull the unionized workers down into the crab pot with them -- at the end of the day, we are all labor (unless you control the capital), and infighting instead of solidarity only makes labor's bargaining position worse.

alickz 3y ago
I could see infighting happening between the unions Some fictional programmer union wants AI, actors union does not want AI Both strike, who wins?
ecf 3y ago
> infighting instead of solidarity Well, it would be easier for non-unionized workers to empathize with unionized if they stopped the ridiculous cancelling/blackmailing/ostracizing of workers who take up “union work”. It’s beyond anticompetitive to go on strike while simultaneously making it career suicide for a young professional who just graduated or something from accepting what would otherwise be a career defining opportunity. The WAG is notorious for this.
- vore 3y ago
  Like it or not, unions have to come down pretty hard on strikebreakers, since they undermine their bargaining position. If the purpose of a strike is to withhold labor from the employer, someone who is otherwise providing labor is directly sabotaging their goal.

edent 3y ago

Sounds like you should unionise then?

crazygringo 3y ago

You do realize that while the artists, animators, and programmers you're talking about actually make a liveable salary on that, the voice actors mostly don't? It's gig work that you're incredibly lucky to get a consistent amount of. And it takes a lot of training. A lot of these people are servers at a restaurant or drive for Uber to make ends meet. They're not making programming-level money on the side, nowhere even close. The union is trying to ensure that the minimum payments for voice actors are reasonable, and that if you do get lucky enough to get a decent amount of work during the year, that it is something you can live on. (And remember that you'll probably audition for 50+ projects for every 1 project you land.)

bluescrn 3y ago
> You do realize that while the artists, animators, and programmers you're talking about actually make a liveable salary on that, the voice actors mostly don't? They're working full-time, long hours (lots of unpaid overtime), and pay often isn't great even for programmers, but especially for non-programming roles (outside of the largest/most successful studios, mostly in the US, where it can be a lot better). I'm sure they'd also love to do part-time gig work and be guaranteed a full-time income from it, but that's usually not an option. Many programmers leave games after a while for better-paying work, less stress, and/or more job security elsewhere.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  I don't get what you're saying. Yes conditions could be better for programmers, but they're nowhere near as bad as for voice actors. > I'm sure they'd also love to do part-time gig work and be guaranteed a full-time income from it, but that's usually not an option. And voice actors would love that too. But they don't get it, that's the point. And "part time" is hiding the fact that, as I said elsewhere, they're often preparing for 50 auditions to get a single gig. It's not like there's an agency that just hands out work.

corinroyal 3y ago

So you're upset that people who didn't bother to form a union are being mistreated, while those who did form a union are doing better? And you appear to want sympathy? Wow. HN really is the best site on the Internet for unintentional comedy. I remember trying to organize Bay Area tech workers in the '90s. Y'all were not receptive at all. The attitude seemed to be that tech workers are too precious for a union. Those were for garbagemen, not professionals. Enjoy your working conditions. It's nice when results are proportional to effort.