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>just look at the sanctions done to Russians when the West decides to stoke a war! Worth noting that the sanctions on Russia were due to Russia invasions of ne

by nemo 3y ago

>just look at the sanctions done to Russians when the West decides to stoke a war! Worth noting that the sanctions on Russia were due to Russia invasions of neighbors like Ukraine (and Georgia), not "the West" deciding to stoke a war. "The West" was using sanctions to _avoid_ stoking a war in responding to Russia's various military offensives against neighbors.

alluro2 3y ago
If you're actually interested in having an informed opinion on the matter, it might be useful finding out more about history of NATO vs USSR, expansion of NATO and dynamic of relationship between NATO and Russia, and EU and Russia in the last ~20 years. Not defending anyone, nor do I have any horse in the game, but as usual, reality is not black and white, and there's a broader history of moves and counter-moves that lead to this point. So "the West stoke a war" is not simply and obviously false (neither it is one-dimensionally true).
- nemo 3y ago
  In fact I'm actually very familiar with that history already. Russia has justified their military invasions and occupations of neighbors by claiming that their actions were a result of NATO's actions, but this is in my opinion after having considered the evidence to be a ridiculous pretext. At no point did NATO actually force Russia to roll their military forces across the borders of their neighbors despite Russia's obviously false claims to that effect. This is a case where pro-Russian propagandists have made a lot of headway in both-sides-ing an issue which was unilateral. Repeating that propaganda isn't a nuanced or informed take, it's rationalizing and justifying war crimes.
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    I sometimes think the Bolshevik revolution, the death of Tsar Nicholas 2, related to the British Royal Family, Queen Victoria was first cousin to Tsar Nicholas 2, are not over. Disputes run deep and span generations when at the top.

by nemo 3y ago

alluro2 3y ago

If you're actually interested in having an informed opinion on the matter, it might be useful finding out more about history of NATO vs USSR, expansion of NATO and dynamic of relationship between NATO and Russia, and EU and Russia in the last ~20 years. Not defending anyone, nor do I have any horse in the game, but as usual, reality is not black and white, and there's a broader history of moves and counter-moves that lead to this point. So "the West stoke a war" is not simply and obviously false (neither it is one-dimensionally true).

nemo 3y ago
In fact I'm actually very familiar with that history already. Russia has justified their military invasions and occupations of neighbors by claiming that their actions were a result of NATO's actions, but this is in my opinion after having considered the evidence to be a ridiculous pretext. At no point did NATO actually force Russia to roll their military forces across the borders of their neighbors despite Russia's obviously false claims to that effect. This is a case where pro-Russian propagandists have made a lot of headway in both-sides-ing an issue which was unilateral. Repeating that propaganda isn't a nuanced or informed take, it's rationalizing and justifying war crimes.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  I sometimes think the Bolshevik revolution, the death of Tsar Nicholas 2, related to the British Royal Family, Queen Victoria was first cousin to Tsar Nicholas 2, are not over. Disputes run deep and span generations when at the top.