4 ms·

It's like we're in the Matrix. And the Matrix is a little island in the middle of a big ocean. Tripping, meditating, dreaming and a hundred other methods will

It's like we're in the Matrix. And the Matrix is a little island in the middle of a big ocean. Tripping, meditating, dreaming and a hundred other methods will get you into the ocean. Show it to you, splash around the shoreline, go for a swim, meet the people who live there... I've tripped some. Psilocybin is my favorite psychedelic substance. My favorite method is Vipassana meditation. (Also, is it just me or is the psychedelic culture markedly saner than the meditation culture?)

abyssin 3y ago
For having dabbed into both, I’m not sure psychedelic culture is better. The promises of psychedelics are higher and in my case the hopes were higher too, so it took me longer to acknowledge the issues with that culture. But many prominent people lie about their respect for science, and in the end I doubt there are fundamental differences with the field of meditation.
- swayvil 3y ago
  Not better, saner. By saner I mean they seem to be more organized and grounded. I mean look at Erowid. Here's the method : here's the report. We have some pudding, we have some proof. Straightforward as heck. Whereas the meditation scene seems to be full of grifters, dogmatists and hand-wavers. The psychedelic culture has a substance in hand. If the substance is bunk then that becomes apparent pretty quick. Solid evidence. Good science. Whereas the meditation scene has a thousand methods and if it doesn't work for you... well.. maybe you are doing it wrong, or maybe you need to try another app subscription... (not to say that there aren't some very straightforward meditation techniques that pay off quick.)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Karrot_Kream 3y ago
    It's a much older tradition that's been tried by hundreds of different cultures. It comes from long before empiricism became a strong value. It's kinda like cooking in that there's an objective part of it but also a bunch of hearsay that's been passed along for generations.
deleted 3y ago
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krzat 3y ago
I do metta. I'm still wondering if meditation makes you a gullible crystal buying idiot, or does it just attract such people.
- swayvil 3y ago
  Well it's a pretty good story surrounding meditation : what mediation can do for you, the philosophies about it, sounds kinda like magic, etc. Which would attract story-lovers. And might lead them to approach it from the story-end first (rather than seeking some more solid to work with). Which could be a problem.
  - malauxyeux 3y ago
    > Which would attract story-lovers. And might lead them to approach it from the story-end first (rather than seeking some more solid to work with). Which could be a problem. Can you elaborate on this? Thanks!
    - swayvil 3y ago
      Story-end-first means focusing on the stories. The big ideas and such. Dogma and rituals. Philosophy. As opposed to getting something real that you can observe firsthand. A solid method with solid results. It can be a problem because there's infinitely more to it than stories. But the stories won't show you that. So it's a bit of a trap. (And a very popular one at that)
      - malauxyeux 3y ago
        Thanks. I've been hanging out in some meditation forums for the past few years. It seems to me that there's a clear "story-driven" dark pattern that goes like this: A person ... * has a distressing meditative experience, e.g., "I saw an angry face." * creates a story about the experience, e.g., "I saw an angry face because of childhood trauma." Then that loops. "angry face" makes "trauma" more salient => makes "angry face" more salient.
mettamage 3y ago
Seems we enjoy similar things :) My last psilocybin trip taught me how to sleep better by showing how I should focus on my body sensations when I feel restless. I should tense and stretch, that's what I noticed during my trip. Disclaimer: I took them in Amsterdam, truffles are decriminalized there.

abyssin 3y ago

For having dabbed into both, I’m not sure psychedelic culture is better. The promises of psychedelics are higher and in my case the hopes were higher too, so it took me longer to acknowledge the issues with that culture. But many prominent people lie about their respect for science, and in the end I doubt there are fundamental differences with the field of meditation.

swayvil 3y ago
Not better, saner. By saner I mean they seem to be more organized and grounded. I mean look at Erowid. Here's the method : here's the report. We have some pudding, we have some proof. Straightforward as heck. Whereas the meditation scene seems to be full of grifters, dogmatists and hand-wavers. The psychedelic culture has a substance in hand. If the substance is bunk then that becomes apparent pretty quick. Solid evidence. Good science. Whereas the meditation scene has a thousand methods and if it doesn't work for you... well.. maybe you are doing it wrong, or maybe you need to try another app subscription... (not to say that there aren't some very straightforward meditation techniques that pay off quick.)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  It's a much older tradition that's been tried by hundreds of different cultures. It comes from long before empiricism became a strong value. It's kinda like cooking in that there's an objective part of it but also a bunch of hearsay that's been passed along for generations.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

krzat 3y ago

I do metta. I'm still wondering if meditation makes you a gullible crystal buying idiot, or does it just attract such people.

swayvil 3y ago
Well it's a pretty good story surrounding meditation : what mediation can do for you, the philosophies about it, sounds kinda like magic, etc. Which would attract story-lovers. And might lead them to approach it from the story-end first (rather than seeking some more solid to work with). Which could be a problem.
- malauxyeux 3y ago
  > Which would attract story-lovers. And might lead them to approach it from the story-end first (rather than seeking some more solid to work with). Which could be a problem. Can you elaborate on this? Thanks!
  - swayvil 3y ago
    Story-end-first means focusing on the stories. The big ideas and such. Dogma and rituals. Philosophy. As opposed to getting something real that you can observe firsthand. A solid method with solid results. It can be a problem because there's infinitely more to it than stories. But the stories won't show you that. So it's a bit of a trap. (And a very popular one at that)
    - malauxyeux 3y ago
      Thanks. I've been hanging out in some meditation forums for the past few years. It seems to me that there's a clear "story-driven" dark pattern that goes like this: A person ... * has a distressing meditative experience, e.g., "I saw an angry face." * creates a story about the experience, e.g., "I saw an angry face because of childhood trauma." Then that loops. "angry face" makes "trauma" more salient => makes "angry face" more salient.

mettamage 3y ago

Seems we enjoy similar things :) My last psilocybin trip taught me how to sleep better by showing how I should focus on my body sensations when I feel restless. I should tense and stretch, that's what I noticed during my trip. Disclaimer: I took them in Amsterdam, truffles are decriminalized there.