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The luddites were not against technology or progress. “They just wanted machines that made high-quality goods,” says Binfield, “and they wanted these machines

The luddites were not against technology or progress. “They just wanted machines that made high-quality goods,” says Binfield, “and they wanted these machines to be run by workers who had gone through an apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Those were their only concerns.” https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-rea... In a parallel here, the SAG-AFTRA actors are not against AI, per se. They're against their likenesses being scanned for 1 days pay and then being used in perpetuity forever without their consent or further payment.

donatj 3y ago
One days pay for one days work seems fair. The electrician that wired the building did far more important work, their work is evident in every single frame of the film, but doesn’t expect payment in perpetuity.
- terminatornet 3y ago
  Do you think people go to movies to see a building or are they going to see an actor? Estimates show that movies may be losing up to 15% of potential revenue due to lack of promotion by actors. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-office-ninja-turtles-star-campaigns-1235568835/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-offi... Something tells me having the electricians show up on the red carpet may not have recovered that loss
  - donatj 3y ago
    They go for the flashing lights and captivating sound far more than any actor. Without the electrician the movie would be two hours of darkness. Ticket sales would suffer far worse than 15%.
    - terminatornet 3y ago
      I don't think actors getting paid more is taking money away from electricians. Hollywood execs pay is up 53% from 2018. I suspect if actors get the deal they want, their increased pay might come from the $500 million a year paychecks from the executives and not the electrician. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/01/top-hollywood-exec-made-498-million-in-5-years-while-writer-pay-fell.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/01/top-hollywood-exec-made-498-... Honestly, if you side with management, you're kind of a sucker.
      - donatj 3y ago
        You misstate my point either by accident or to build a strawman. The point I am making is that Electricians are fairly paid, unlike actors who already have a sweetheart deal. Siding with anti-technology rent-seekers seems far sillier.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        terminatornet 3y ago
        What sweetheart deal are you referring to? "According to SAG-AFTRA, only 14% of its members make at least $26,470 annually to qualify for SAG-AFTRA healthcare coverage" This doesn't seem like the majority of actors in the union are being paid well https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/actors-strike-hollywood-sag-aftra-living-wage-healthcare-struggle-1234798347/ https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/act...
satvikpendem 3y ago
> they wanted these machines to be run by workers who had gone through an apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Not sure why one would need to go through an apprenticeship to operate a machine as compared to needing to go through one in order to learn how to stitch well. The entire point of the machines was to cut down on labor costs and increase production, which the company could do with or without the Luddite workers; they simply brought in unskilled workers, because the machine didn't need all of the skill (and therefore higher labor cost) of Luddite craftspeople. The same will happen with AI here, if companies can cut down labor costs, what will the current laborers do? They are striking, yes, but just like the Luddites, if there comes a technology that can replace them with cheaper labor, then that's what companies will do, and I don't think the current laborers have any recourse (in the long term, not the short term, as I know Luddites tried to destroy the machines but in the end they were defeated).

donatj 3y ago

One days pay for one days work seems fair. The electrician that wired the building did far more important work, their work is evident in every single frame of the film, but doesn’t expect payment in perpetuity.

terminatornet 3y ago
Do you think people go to movies to see a building or are they going to see an actor? Estimates show that movies may be losing up to 15% of potential revenue due to lack of promotion by actors. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-office-ninja-turtles-star-campaigns-1235568835/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-offi... Something tells me having the electricians show up on the red carpet may not have recovered that loss
- donatj 3y ago
  They go for the flashing lights and captivating sound far more than any actor. Without the electrician the movie would be two hours of darkness. Ticket sales would suffer far worse than 15%.
  - terminatornet 3y ago
    I don't think actors getting paid more is taking money away from electricians. Hollywood execs pay is up 53% from 2018. I suspect if actors get the deal they want, their increased pay might come from the $500 million a year paychecks from the executives and not the electrician. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/01/top-hollywood-exec-made-498-million-in-5-years-while-writer-pay-fell.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/01/top-hollywood-exec-made-498-... Honestly, if you side with management, you're kind of a sucker.
    - donatj 3y ago
      You misstate my point either by accident or to build a strawman. The point I am making is that Electricians are fairly paid, unlike actors who already have a sweetheart deal. Siding with anti-technology rent-seekers seems far sillier.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - terminatornet 3y ago
        What sweetheart deal are you referring to? "According to SAG-AFTRA, only 14% of its members make at least $26,470 annually to qualify for SAG-AFTRA healthcare coverage" This doesn't seem like the majority of actors in the union are being paid well https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/actors-strike-hollywood-sag-aftra-living-wage-healthcare-struggle-1234798347/ https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/act...

satvikpendem 3y ago

> they wanted these machines to be run by workers who had gone through an apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Not sure why one would need to go through an apprenticeship to operate a machine as compared to needing to go through one in order to learn how to stitch well. The entire point of the machines was to cut down on labor costs and increase production, which the company could do with or without the Luddite workers; they simply brought in unskilled workers, because the machine didn't need all of the skill (and therefore higher labor cost) of Luddite craftspeople. The same will happen with AI here, if companies can cut down labor costs, what will the current laborers do? They are striking, yes, but just like the Luddites, if there comes a technology that can replace them with cheaper labor, then that's what companies will do, and I don't think the current laborers have any recourse (in the long term, not the short term, as I know Luddites tried to destroy the machines but in the end they were defeated).