3 ms·

I recall Terrence McKenna (everyone's favorite historical psychonaut) saying "It's hard to do psychedelics". I agree with him. These things are dangerous when t

I recall Terrence McKenna (everyone's favorite historical psychonaut) saying "It's hard to do psychedelics". I agree with him. These things are dangerous when the set and setting is wrong, or if they're done at an off-kilter phase of your life, or that you simply over-indulge in them. I appreciate the mini renaissance period they're having these days, but these things need plenty of research before trying them. They're not something you do for a giddy high, they're tools. One thing people need to do is integrate the various lessons they've gained from tripping into their daily lives. All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer amnesia after trying them. It's crucial to take notes and integrate the ideas you've gained, otherwise you've wasted the trip(s) IMHO.

abyssin 3y ago
I wonder if there exists a framework for integration that follows a rational approach. Psychology in general is a field full of esoteric and hardly scientific approaches. What I found about its psychedelic subfield is even worse. Behind a facade of science, it’s still very much New Age stuff. I had a psychedelic experience in a group setting with people that are supposedly experienced and knowledgeable about the science. It was actually worse than when I tripped alone and integration has been hard. Does anyone know of a rational technique or theory to do the integration work?
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  I'm a psychedelics enjoyer. imo, the only good knowledge of the science we currently have stops at the level of chemistry. We know what these molecules look like. Sometimes we have a good idea of what their action in the body is, including the brain. After that, imo, the "science" breaks down. In large part because it's so particular to the individual. I don't think we yet have a rational framework for radically deconstructing and reconstructing something so idiosyncratic as the subjective experience. Not one that well transcends the borders of individuality and intersubjectivity, that can be readily applied by all people (or even all types of people). I think we solidly enter the realm of philosophy... to my mind, the employment of psychedelics is most profitable when seen as a different facet of the art of living with yourself well.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Gerard0 3y ago
As someone who almost always tries to "use" substances in this way, I think it's also perfectly fine to do it just "to have fun", party or whatever. The experience itself is not to be disdained and not every trip has to be like this.
- soultrees 3y ago
  A good quote “ tripping with friends is bonding, tripping alone is therapy”. Both have their place and time and neither is better than the other.
  - Gerard0 3y ago
    I like this! Thanks!
samstave 3y ago
The biggest issue is to ensure you have good mental health/life situations... There have been times I've been super depressed and people recommend mushrooms, which I've done my fair share when I was younger and didn't do mushrooms for almost 25 years... I wanted to do some but I was too depressed, and while it was recommended for depression, I know my relationship with mushrooms, and I know when I am not in a place to do them. They need to be taken with an open happy heart, or focus and desire for such. They are no good if you're going to dwell on the negative aspects of your path - take the negative from an objective observation, and heal.
_a_a_a_ 3y ago
This sounds like the usual covert anti-drugs post that comes up every time, with sloppy claims and a total absence of facts. > or that you simply over-indulge in them duh. What isn't dangerous if you're stupid. > They're not something you do for a giddy high Weasel words 'giddy'. And I do use them precisely for a high. > One thing people need to do is integrate the various lessons they've gained from tripping into their daily lives. what does this mean and how do i do it? (serious question) > All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer amnesia after trying them who is 'we' here, the entire user-base? And I've never heard of this effect, ever.
- fidrelity 3y ago
  'Assume good faith' is part of the HN guidelines. Not OP, but as someone who had his first trip a couple of months ago, I can relate to a couple of points you're calling out. Regarding integration: I have had appointments with a therapist specialised on integrating peak experiences and for me what worked was to have someone to discuss and extract meaning and insights from the trip and find 'hooks' how to make them part of daily life. Regarding the amnesia, I can also relate. I still remember the insights, the lessons, the characters and the meaning of my trip. But it gets harder and harder to connect to the feelings of the trip, which in turn make the insights less 'sticky'.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    Hi, thanks. I try to assume good faith but when the same kind of posts keep appearing, opinionated, fact free and making dubious claims which they won't back up when asked, I start to doubt. Someone elsewhere on this thread described integration. For myself when I've experienced it it's a kind of deep sea-change in my mind, no therapy or reflection required. Something changes, snap, and I'm a newer person. Thanks about the amnesia, no experience of this nor ever heard of it but I'm glad someone could verify it.
- tasty_freeze 3y ago
  "Integration" is a very common term so it should be easy to read a better description that I'm about to give. My take on it is that integration is the process of reflecting on one's experience and figuring out what it means for your real life. For instance, say someone is burdened with thoughts of self-hatred due to growing up with critical and non-supportive parents. Although they can intellectually entertain the thought that the self-hatred is due to this, under the influence of psychedelics, they might viscerally feel the truth of it. When sober again, integration means taking that insight and working on changing your mindset to align with that new belief. There are plenty of examples of the flip side too, eg, someone with a string of bad relationships might, under the influence, really see that they themselves are the main cause of the failures. But an insight isn't enough. Integration is making changes in sober life to change things in the positive direction. Or maybe your life is going great, you take psychedelics, and you have a hard trip that is filled with morbid thoughts about sickness and death. It can be interpreted as an indication that those thoughts are present but subconscious even in sober life, and maybe it is worth investigating more via conventional means.
empath75 3y ago
I did a bunch of psychedelics when I was in my 20s, and the further I get away from it, the more ridiculous the pretentious pseudo-mystical crap people spout about it gets to me. There is a lot to learn from and LSD trip, but it's not magic, you're not seeing other worlds, it's not a goddess or an alien from another dimension. Your mind is a network of neurons, psychedelics make those neurons fire in unusual ways, that's it. What you should be learning from it is that your _ordinary perceptions of the world_ are nothing but a very convincing illusion created by your mind, and that you should not entirely trust what you believe you are seeing and hearing and feeling, because in a very real sense -- _none of it is real_. What you should _not_ be taking away from it is that anything you see or feel or think during a trip is the _true_ reality, any more than your ordinary waking life is. Walk away skeptical, walk away confused, don't walk away from it thinking you've discovered the meaning of life. Everyone you know that doesn't do drugs will think you're being silly, because you are.

abyssin 3y ago

I wonder if there exists a framework for integration that follows a rational approach. Psychology in general is a field full of esoteric and hardly scientific approaches. What I found about its psychedelic subfield is even worse. Behind a facade of science, it’s still very much New Age stuff. I had a psychedelic experience in a group setting with people that are supposedly experienced and knowledgeable about the science. It was actually worse than when I tripped alone and integration has been hard. Does anyone know of a rational technique or theory to do the integration work?

jurynulifcation 3y ago
I'm a psychedelics enjoyer. imo, the only good knowledge of the science we currently have stops at the level of chemistry. We know what these molecules look like. Sometimes we have a good idea of what their action in the body is, including the brain. After that, imo, the "science" breaks down. In large part because it's so particular to the individual. I don't think we yet have a rational framework for radically deconstructing and reconstructing something so idiosyncratic as the subjective experience. Not one that well transcends the borders of individuality and intersubjectivity, that can be readily applied by all people (or even all types of people). I think we solidly enter the realm of philosophy... to my mind, the employment of psychedelics is most profitable when seen as a different facet of the art of living with yourself well.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Gerard0 3y ago

As someone who almost always tries to "use" substances in this way, I think it's also perfectly fine to do it just "to have fun", party or whatever. The experience itself is not to be disdained and not every trip has to be like this.

soultrees 3y ago
A good quote “ tripping with friends is bonding, tripping alone is therapy”. Both have their place and time and neither is better than the other.
- Gerard0 3y ago
  I like this! Thanks!

samstave 3y ago

The biggest issue is to ensure you have good mental health/life situations... There have been times I've been super depressed and people recommend mushrooms, which I've done my fair share when I was younger and didn't do mushrooms for almost 25 years... I wanted to do some but I was too depressed, and while it was recommended for depression, I know my relationship with mushrooms, and I know when I am not in a place to do them. They need to be taken with an open happy heart, or focus and desire for such. They are no good if you're going to dwell on the negative aspects of your path - take the negative from an objective observation, and heal.

_a_a_a_ 3y ago

This sounds like the usual covert anti-drugs post that comes up every time, with sloppy claims and a total absence of facts. > or that you simply over-indulge in them duh. What isn't dangerous if you're stupid. > They're not something you do for a giddy high Weasel words 'giddy'. And I do use them precisely for a high. > One thing people need to do is integrate the various lessons they've gained from tripping into their daily lives. what does this mean and how do i do it? (serious question) > All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer amnesia after trying them who is 'we' here, the entire user-base? And I've never heard of this effect, ever.

fidrelity 3y ago
'Assume good faith' is part of the HN guidelines. Not OP, but as someone who had his first trip a couple of months ago, I can relate to a couple of points you're calling out. Regarding integration: I have had appointments with a therapist specialised on integrating peak experiences and for me what worked was to have someone to discuss and extract meaning and insights from the trip and find 'hooks' how to make them part of daily life. Regarding the amnesia, I can also relate. I still remember the insights, the lessons, the characters and the meaning of my trip. But it gets harder and harder to connect to the feelings of the trip, which in turn make the insights less 'sticky'.
- _a_a_a_ 3y ago
  Hi, thanks. I try to assume good faith but when the same kind of posts keep appearing, opinionated, fact free and making dubious claims which they won't back up when asked, I start to doubt. Someone elsewhere on this thread described integration. For myself when I've experienced it it's a kind of deep sea-change in my mind, no therapy or reflection required. Something changes, snap, and I'm a newer person. Thanks about the amnesia, no experience of this nor ever heard of it but I'm glad someone could verify it.
tasty_freeze 3y ago
"Integration" is a very common term so it should be easy to read a better description that I'm about to give. My take on it is that integration is the process of reflecting on one's experience and figuring out what it means for your real life. For instance, say someone is burdened with thoughts of self-hatred due to growing up with critical and non-supportive parents. Although they can intellectually entertain the thought that the self-hatred is due to this, under the influence of psychedelics, they might viscerally feel the truth of it. When sober again, integration means taking that insight and working on changing your mindset to align with that new belief. There are plenty of examples of the flip side too, eg, someone with a string of bad relationships might, under the influence, really see that they themselves are the main cause of the failures. But an insight isn't enough. Integration is making changes in sober life to change things in the positive direction. Or maybe your life is going great, you take psychedelics, and you have a hard trip that is filled with morbid thoughts about sickness and death. It can be interpreted as an indication that those thoughts are present but subconscious even in sober life, and maybe it is worth investigating more via conventional means.

empath75 3y ago

I did a bunch of psychedelics when I was in my 20s, and the further I get away from it, the more ridiculous the pretentious pseudo-mystical crap people spout about it gets to me. There is a lot to learn from and LSD trip, but it's not magic, you're not seeing other worlds, it's not a goddess or an alien from another dimension. Your mind is a network of neurons, psychedelics make those neurons fire in unusual ways, that's it. What you should be learning from it is that your _ordinary perceptions of the world_ are nothing but a very convincing illusion created by your mind, and that you should not entirely trust what you believe you are seeing and hearing and feeling, because in a very real sense -- _none of it is real_. What you should _not_ be taking away from it is that anything you see or feel or think during a trip is the _true_ reality, any more than your ordinary waking life is. Walk away skeptical, walk away confused, don't walk away from it thinking you've discovered the meaning of life. Everyone you know that doesn't do drugs will think you're being silly, because you are.