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And yet you have two people in this thread saying "I see myself in what you complain about and I don't like it". It's interesting that you draw from that "nothi

And yet you have two people in this thread saying "I see myself in what you complain about and I don't like it". It's interesting that you draw from that "nothing can ever change" (my phrasing).

mhartl 15y ago
You put quotes around the phrase "nothing can ever change", and yet that phrase doesn't appear in the parent comment. I suggest restricting yourself to rebutting arguments I actually made.
- hythloday 15y ago
  How would you characterize the difference between "the problem is unfixable" and "nothing can ever change"? They are substansively the same position.
  - mhartl 15y ago
    I thought it was clear from context, but I've added a clarifying clause. The point is that, if firing people for commenting on low-cut dresses doesn't work, complaining about it in a blog post certainly isn't going to do the trick. The problem is unfixable using the means at the disposal of the OP. In this case, although the outcome is lamentable, leaving the industry may be a rational response.
    - hythloday 15y ago
      Firing people is clearly an extreme option; it might be worth asking kcunning if she felt that was an appropriate reaction (I'd guess not). Writing a blog post, on the other hand, has generated half a dozen people changing their minds about how much sexism they're prepared to put up with (ranging from "I am confronting my own active sexism and resolving to change it" to "I am more inclined to speak up to challenge active sexism when I see it"). Speaking for myself, it was a series of posts like this that gave me the confidence to start calling other men out when I saw active sexism take place. I suppose you could argue that everyone in this thread who is appearing to change their mind is lying, but that seems to be begging the question--purely on the responses I'd suggest that the preponderance of evidence is that writing blog posts does produce incremental change.
      - mhartl 15y ago
        I don't think they're lying. I think they're a drop in the ocean.

And yet you have two people in this thread saying "I see myself in what you complain about and I don't like it". It's interesting that you draw from that "nothing can ever change" (my phrasing).

mhartl 15y ago

You put quotes around the phrase "nothing can ever change", and yet that phrase doesn't appear in the parent comment. I suggest restricting yourself to rebutting arguments I actually made.

hythloday 15y ago
How would you characterize the difference between "the problem is unfixable" and "nothing can ever change"? They are substansively the same position.
- mhartl 15y ago
  I thought it was clear from context, but I've added a clarifying clause. The point is that, if firing people for commenting on low-cut dresses doesn't work, complaining about it in a blog post certainly isn't going to do the trick. The problem is unfixable using the means at the disposal of the OP. In this case, although the outcome is lamentable, leaving the industry may be a rational response.
  - hythloday 15y ago
    Firing people is clearly an extreme option; it might be worth asking kcunning if she felt that was an appropriate reaction (I'd guess not). Writing a blog post, on the other hand, has generated half a dozen people changing their minds about how much sexism they're prepared to put up with (ranging from "I am confronting my own active sexism and resolving to change it" to "I am more inclined to speak up to challenge active sexism when I see it"). Speaking for myself, it was a series of posts like this that gave me the confidence to start calling other men out when I saw active sexism take place. I suppose you could argue that everyone in this thread who is appearing to change their mind is lying, but that seems to be begging the question--purely on the responses I'd suggest that the preponderance of evidence is that writing blog posts does produce incremental change.
    - mhartl 15y ago
      I don't think they're lying. I think they're a drop in the ocean.