3 ms·

I think the ship has sailed for the web. Many apps don't even bother with making functional webapps any longer; the go to market are mobile apps for the censor

by sneak 3y ago

I think the ship has sailed for the web. Many apps don't even bother with making functional webapps any longer; the go to market are mobile apps for the censorship platforms. The web lost. Now it's just a transport layer for mobile app API requests.

attah_ 3y ago
> Many apps don't even bother with making functional webapps any longer It seems they have gotten inside your head. If services are no longer that, but "apps", then of course people lose sight of the problem.
layer8 3y ago
Apps shouldn’t be web apps anyway. Local-first apps should be the default, in the context of digital freedom. The only exception being self-hostable web apps.
- attah_ 3y ago
  You misunderstand. The point is that online services now come with apps for no reason. Very few things are so local that what you say applies. Though those few definitely should be! And as you are already on to, not all web apps are cloud. What can be on-device webpages (e.g. routers) should be.
- dTal 3y ago
  I see your point, in the sense that local software is in theory more permanent, more reliable. But the issue is more subtle that you are describing. Is the local-first program* free software, or proprietary adware? Is its sole function to communicate with some particular company's API? What is better for digital freedom, the Reddit website or the official "Reddit app"? If a company is going to be gating their API behind some proprietary shovelware anyway, I would rather they write it in a plaintext scripting language (JavaScript) that runs inside a free software virtual machine (Firefox) which lets me intercept and control it. *Yes, "program". How I hate "apps". Perverse term.
  - layer8 3y ago
    You are right, we also need open protocols. With Usenet or IRC or email (or even Reddit and Twitter until recently), local apps are perfectly fine, because everyone can write their own client if they want. That gives you more freedom than being stuck with a proprietary web app.
    - salawat 3y ago
      How about the common person being able to host without having to sign up for a "business" plan. Lookin' at you Spectrum for not providing the capability to manage PTR records in DNS without an artificial barrier and rent-seek. Companies continue to encroach on what should be basic freedom to do network management. It's entirely intentional; to the point that I've about accepted there's a high-level of society push to enact as many barriers to reasonable liberty as humanly possible, all in the name of "Public safety" or some other transparent on further examination excuse.

by sneak 3y ago

attah_ 3y ago

> Many apps don't even bother with making functional webapps any longer It seems they have gotten inside your head. If services are no longer that, but "apps", then of course people lose sight of the problem.

layer8 3y ago

Apps shouldn’t be web apps anyway. Local-first apps should be the default, in the context of digital freedom. The only exception being self-hostable web apps.

attah_ 3y ago
You misunderstand. The point is that online services now come with apps for no reason. Very few things are so local that what you say applies. Though those few definitely should be! And as you are already on to, not all web apps are cloud. What can be on-device webpages (e.g. routers) should be.
dTal 3y ago
I see your point, in the sense that local software is in theory more permanent, more reliable. But the issue is more subtle that you are describing. Is the local-first program* free software, or proprietary adware? Is its sole function to communicate with some particular company's API? What is better for digital freedom, the Reddit website or the official "Reddit app"? If a company is going to be gating their API behind some proprietary shovelware anyway, I would rather they write it in a plaintext scripting language (JavaScript) that runs inside a free software virtual machine (Firefox) which lets me intercept and control it. *Yes, "program". How I hate "apps". Perverse term.
- layer8 3y ago
  You are right, we also need open protocols. With Usenet or IRC or email (or even Reddit and Twitter until recently), local apps are perfectly fine, because everyone can write their own client if they want. That gives you more freedom than being stuck with a proprietary web app.
  - salawat 3y ago
    How about the common person being able to host without having to sign up for a "business" plan. Lookin' at you Spectrum for not providing the capability to manage PTR records in DNS without an artificial barrier and rent-seek. Companies continue to encroach on what should be basic freedom to do network management. It's entirely intentional; to the point that I've about accepted there's a high-level of society push to enact as many barriers to reasonable liberty as humanly possible, all in the name of "Public safety" or some other transparent on further examination excuse.