4 ms·

As a supplement to those posts, I would like a set of instructions about how to talk to women properly (and women with low cut dresses especially). I mean it se

by Tichy 15y ago

As a supplement to those posts, I would like a set of instructions about how to talk to women properly (and women with low cut dresses especially). I mean it seems possible that the "I know where I'm sitting" guy was simply crap at giving compliments, rather than a sexist jerk. Attraction between men and women exists, and it is even vital for the survival of the human race for the time being. So it has to be dealt with somehow.

omgsean 15y ago
>Attraction between men and women exists, and it is even vital for the survival of the human race for the time being. So it has to be dealt with somehow. Not at work.
- jrockway 15y ago
  You have to deal with it by not taking action based on the things you think. That's why you're a professional writing software and not an animal out hunting for scraps of food. (Humanity is defined by emotions, particularly physical attraction. But it's also defined by rational thought; not doing whatever you think your emotions want you to do. So if you're in a meeting with some attractive coworkers, use your rational mind to keep your comments to yourself. There are lots of people on Earth and there will be other opportunities for reproduction.)
  - Tichy 15y ago
    As I said in my other comment: in theory I agree, don't date at work is good advice. The reality is that 18% of committed couples met at their work place, though (that is the first number Google found, at least). Also, who says that I want to work as a "programming drone" - why do you get to tell me what a professional has to be like? What if I don't like it? I am not arguing for the right to leer at breasts at work, but I don't like the other extreme of being a completely rational machine that you describe either. I am not a robot. (OK, I am a robot, but a very advanced biological one).
- Tichy 15y ago
  Well it is common advice to not date in the work place. The reality is that a lot of couples meet in the work place, though. II just googled and found http://www.savvysugar.com/More-Couples-Meet-Work-Than-College-1002109 http://www.savvysugar.com/More-Couples-Meet-Work-Than-Colleg... which claims 18% of committed couples met at their work place, va 14% who met at college (which is actually a kind of work place, too). So while it sounds like good advice on the surface to not date colleagues, it just isn't realistic.
  - omgsean 15y ago
    How many of those relationships do you think were sparked by public sexist comments during a meeting? You're veering dangerously into "beep boop" territory.
    - Tichy 15y ago
      What is "beep boop" territory? I am aware that many people will choose to misunderstand me. I am not saying sexism at work should be tolerated so that couples can form. I am saying that attraction at the workplace is real and people need help learning how to deal with it. The "leary guy" might have been sexist, or simply socially inept. If the definition of sexism includes "acknowledging the existence of boobs" then there is no hope, though.
      - omgsean 15y ago
        "beep boop" territory is what happens when you try to reduce human interactions to evolutionary psychology or "if..then..else" statements. >If the definition of sexism includes "acknowledging the existence of boobs" then there is no hope, though. "Hey, look at the boobs on our sole female co-worker!" is sexism. So I guess there's no hope.
hythloday 15y ago
I would like a set of instructions about how to talk to women properly Like you would talk to men. Simple.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  No way in hell. HR would slaughter me.
  - nickolai 15y ago
    They may consider torturing you first. "Oh come on, my grandma/dog/goldfish would write better code!!!" This would be a totally acceptable jab among guys, yet saying this to a female coworker would immediately be misinterpreted as "woman are bad at coding" promptly followed by the full wrath of the HR gender equality team.
    - hythloday 15y ago
      Well, my advice stands, though if you're actively working to undermine your male colleague's confidence in their ability you might consider changing that. But if you insist on treating male and female colleagues differently then you spend your entire day saying to women, "you don't belong here and you never will". If you're comfortable with that and your manager's comfortable with that, please give me the name of your company so I can avoid it.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        "if you're actively working to undermine your male colleague's confidence in their ability" You don't have a solid grasp on male-to-male communication in the US workplace. Please keep in mind that perhaps your culture is different.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        15y ago
reneherse 15y ago
How to talk to women in the workplace: Treat them first and foremost as persons, not as sexual beings, attractive or otherwise. Imagine she's your sister, your mom, a CEO or Secretary of State, and proceed normally. Be a gentleman. And I'd say the "person-first" rule goes for how to treat other men, too.
- Tichy 15y ago
  I am not attracted to my sister or my mom, though. Sure you could say, just don't be attracted to co-workers, but it just isn't realistic (see other comments, 18% of committed couples met at work).
  - reneherse 15y ago
    The best rule is to just keep it to yourself (at least until you're certain the attraction is reciprocated). Don't act on it, don't let it color your interactions or conclusions about her competence, good or bad. Its important to not objectify your co-workers, as that is the starting point of all sexism and sexual harrassment. And incidentally, since attractive women receive questionable attention all the time, your gentlemanly behavior will make you stand out, possibly allowing you to become friends or more, if thats what is mutually wanted. You will also grow as a human being. i'd write more but it's too tortuous on my iphone. if you you've got other questions or need advice, feel free to shoot me an email.
    - Tichy 15y ago
      Thanks, I was asking more in general - I think many people could need that advice. Sadly, I rarely ever have female colleagues. But I am also not in the dating scene anymore, so it is not really a problem for me to ignore attractive colleagues atm.

by Tichy 15y ago

omgsean 15y ago

>Attraction between men and women exists, and it is even vital for the survival of the human race for the time being. So it has to be dealt with somehow. Not at work.

jrockway 15y ago
You have to deal with it by not taking action based on the things you think. That's why you're a professional writing software and not an animal out hunting for scraps of food. (Humanity is defined by emotions, particularly physical attraction. But it's also defined by rational thought; not doing whatever you think your emotions want you to do. So if you're in a meeting with some attractive coworkers, use your rational mind to keep your comments to yourself. There are lots of people on Earth and there will be other opportunities for reproduction.)
- Tichy 15y ago
  As I said in my other comment: in theory I agree, don't date at work is good advice. The reality is that 18% of committed couples met at their work place, though (that is the first number Google found, at least). Also, who says that I want to work as a "programming drone" - why do you get to tell me what a professional has to be like? What if I don't like it? I am not arguing for the right to leer at breasts at work, but I don't like the other extreme of being a completely rational machine that you describe either. I am not a robot. (OK, I am a robot, but a very advanced biological one).
Tichy 15y ago
Well it is common advice to not date in the work place. The reality is that a lot of couples meet in the work place, though. II just googled and found http://www.savvysugar.com/More-Couples-Meet-Work-Than-College-1002109 http://www.savvysugar.com/More-Couples-Meet-Work-Than-Colleg... which claims 18% of committed couples met at their work place, va 14% who met at college (which is actually a kind of work place, too). So while it sounds like good advice on the surface to not date colleagues, it just isn't realistic.
- omgsean 15y ago
  How many of those relationships do you think were sparked by public sexist comments during a meeting? You're veering dangerously into "beep boop" territory.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    What is "beep boop" territory? I am aware that many people will choose to misunderstand me. I am not saying sexism at work should be tolerated so that couples can form. I am saying that attraction at the workplace is real and people need help learning how to deal with it. The "leary guy" might have been sexist, or simply socially inept. If the definition of sexism includes "acknowledging the existence of boobs" then there is no hope, though.
    - omgsean 15y ago
      "beep boop" territory is what happens when you try to reduce human interactions to evolutionary psychology or "if..then..else" statements. >If the definition of sexism includes "acknowledging the existence of boobs" then there is no hope, though. "Hey, look at the boobs on our sole female co-worker!" is sexism. So I guess there's no hope.

hythloday 15y ago

I would like a set of instructions about how to talk to women properly Like you would talk to men. Simple.

burgerbrain 15y ago
No way in hell. HR would slaughter me.
- nickolai 15y ago
  They may consider torturing you first. "Oh come on, my grandma/dog/goldfish would write better code!!!" This would be a totally acceptable jab among guys, yet saying this to a female coworker would immediately be misinterpreted as "woman are bad at coding" promptly followed by the full wrath of the HR gender equality team.
  - hythloday 15y ago
    Well, my advice stands, though if you're actively working to undermine your male colleague's confidence in their ability you might consider changing that. But if you insist on treating male and female colleagues differently then you spend your entire day saying to women, "you don't belong here and you never will". If you're comfortable with that and your manager's comfortable with that, please give me the name of your company so I can avoid it.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      "if you're actively working to undermine your male colleague's confidence in their ability" You don't have a solid grasp on male-to-male communication in the US workplace. Please keep in mind that perhaps your culture is different.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - 15y ago

reneherse 15y ago

How to talk to women in the workplace: Treat them first and foremost as persons, not as sexual beings, attractive or otherwise. Imagine she's your sister, your mom, a CEO or Secretary of State, and proceed normally. Be a gentleman. And I'd say the "person-first" rule goes for how to treat other men, too.

Tichy 15y ago
I am not attracted to my sister or my mom, though. Sure you could say, just don't be attracted to co-workers, but it just isn't realistic (see other comments, 18% of committed couples met at work).
- reneherse 15y ago
  The best rule is to just keep it to yourself (at least until you're certain the attraction is reciprocated). Don't act on it, don't let it color your interactions or conclusions about her competence, good or bad. Its important to not objectify your co-workers, as that is the starting point of all sexism and sexual harrassment. And incidentally, since attractive women receive questionable attention all the time, your gentlemanly behavior will make you stand out, possibly allowing you to become friends or more, if thats what is mutually wanted. You will also grow as a human being. i'd write more but it's too tortuous on my iphone. if you you've got other questions or need advice, feel free to shoot me an email.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    Thanks, I was asking more in general - I think many people could need that advice. Sadly, I rarely ever have female colleagues. But I am also not in the dating scene anymore, so it is not really a problem for me to ignore attractive colleagues atm.