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There are two ways for a foreigners to use UPI. 1. If you are from one of G20 countries (for now, will expand to other countries), you can get a prepaid UPI d

There are two ways for a foreigners to use UPI. 1. If you are from one of G20 countries (for now, will expand to other countries), you can get a prepaid UPI digital wallet at the airport where you land. Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. You don't need an India phone number or India bank account. You can load money into this prepaid wallet via your foreign account or credit card etc. You can use your passport as document for KYC purposes. This is most convenient for short visits. The UPI app issued will be by some forex company. When you leave India, whatever Rupee balance in the app will be refunded to you at the airport. The UPI apps that are most popular with Indians (GPay, PhonePe, PayTM) won't work for this. 2. If you are not from G20 or you are going to be in India for longer than a week, you are likely to get a local phone number. You can get a local prepaid phone number sim at the airport. Then, you can open a bank account in India, tied to that phone number. This account type is called NRO Rupee account – Non Resident Ordinary account. This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone. Once you have that bank account, you can use any UPI app like any Indian does. See: 1. https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/opening-bank-account-india/ https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/opening-bank-account-indi... 2. https://rbi.org.in/scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=16 https://rbi.org.in/scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=16 3. https://wise.com/in/blog/upi-international-transfers https://wise.com/in/blog/upi-international-transfers

signal11 3y ago
1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited) 2) opening an account isn’t practical for tourists, but of course if you’re living in India for even a short while, it’s worth it. 3) Allegedly UPI will work for NRIs / OCIs with foreign phone numbers. In reality most banks haven’t implemented it yet. tl;dr - “onboarding” onto UPI for short-term visitors is mired in burdensome bureaucracy, and this isn’t a technical issue with UPI, it’s a result of conscious choices by Indian regulators. The real win would be if you could load up a UPI wallet like you’d do with PayPal. Perhaps initially restricted to people with a valid visa. But regulators haven’t figured that out yet.
- sudshekhar 3y ago
  Mentioned this on the parent thread, but there are new UPI apps coming out in the market which don't need a bank account. https://chequpi.com/ https://chequpi.com/ For example
  - vinay_ys 3y ago
    Nice and clean! Congrats!
  - signal11 3y ago
    This looks really promising, thank you. (And oh, it’s a YC company!) https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460076542865411 https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460... Is there a page which lists others like this?
    - sudshekhar 3y ago
      https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps These two links list all the approved UPI apps in the Indian fintech market. As you can see, the ecosystem is vibrant and ever-growing :) We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date. Fave app and First Rupi(from IDFC) are alternatives you can try if interested.
      - signal11 3y ago
        > We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date. Awesome! I look forward to trying out your app!
  - iDon 3y ago
    I used the Cheq app to make UPI payments via smartphone / QR code, during a holiday in India in July. The app listed locations for completing the Know Your Customer (KYC) process - I did this at Transcorp in Bengaluru. It was worth the effort - it is far more convenient than cash in most cases. Most vendors kept little change, and even restaurants were not keen on receiving a 500R note for a 200R meal. Similarly for museums, art galleries, historic buildings. Auto-rickshaw drivers were happy with cash, and had a reasonable amount of change. I did find a couple of vendors who weren't registered as merchants for UPI, and I could only transfer to merchants, not other users. For travellers I'd suggest setting up UPI beforehand if possible; as mentioned you can do it as you fly in (Thomas Cook offers this service in the airport), but the KYC might take a while. (Side-tracking from payments to SIMs : ) Several historic buildings had an online-only ticket process with a QR code displayed outside. The user experience of the websites was variable (navigating the forms and input widgets on a phone while standing in the street could be trying), and they required a lot of information, eg. Passport number and sometimes home address, usually including authentication via one time password sent to mobile phone number and possibly they only work for Indian SIMs. Those sites accepted credit card payment, including international. I couldn't count the number of times I gave my phone number, for all sorts of purposes, e.g. when checking in my phone at a temple, I was photographed and gave my number - simple id and method for finding the phone among all the others (when I realised that I switched the phone back on). And for all of these a local phone number is required, so pick up a local SIM at the airport or in the city. I did both, and I think the airport process was quicker. They do require full id for SIMs, including a local address, e.g. a hotel. A 28-day SIM cost only 299 rupees so I got a second one for increased coverage and capacity, because the networks are over-subscribed. (That's less than the daily rate at home). A dual-SIM phone makes that easy, and I could also run with one local SIM and my home SIM to receive SMSs. I was able to download maps and apps while travelling on buses and trains, and use tracking apps - which helped with knowing when a bus was approaching my stop.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
> Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. > You can get a local prepaid phone number sim at the airport. Worth noting, do all this before you leave the airport. Assuming you land in Delhi, once you leave the airport there's no way to get back in unless you have flight information to show This turned into a pretty big problem for me on my first trip to India once I exited the airport with no way to make phone calls, no data, no sense of where anything was, and no rupees (I hadn't exchanged cash yet)
- mattigames 3y ago
  Yeah no, it seems likethe best idea it's to not go to India at all and avoid all that trouble.
  - user3939382 3y ago
    Riiight.. there’s a problem with money exchange at the airport so the solution is to completely write off an entire subcontinent that’s the home of one of the oldest, richest human cultures.
    - mattigames 3y ago
      Totally, Im sure thats the one and only problem you will face there.
    - pb7 3y ago
      If it’s a massive burden to do something as simple as pay for goods and services then why not? There is a whole world out there that doesn’t suffer from this problem.
      - mavelikara 3y ago
        Currency notes and credit/debit cards work well.
  - kryptozinc 3y ago
wtmt 3y ago
> This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone. Online method is not possible since banks and other providers insist on providing Aadhaar number and completing OTP authentication for that mode. Aadhaar is a number given for residents, i.e., anyone who has legally resides in the country for more than 182 days. So a foreigner landing in the country isn’t going to be eligible for it until six months have passed.
- kylehotchkiss 3y ago
  Having been in a situation where I've asked for one of these accounts, the bank asks for FRRO registration paperwork. If you've ever been to a FRRO, you know they won't actually grant those :)
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
1) This is never explained to visitors in way that'd get their attention - for example, getting a paper from immigration explaining that's available. Too complicated for now. Maybe once this is available outside the airport it's more viable. Strongly recommend visitors to just take out cash, and carry the amount they need per day + 50% on them. Personally I got by living in India for several years primarily using my American Express card which was accepted at more places than I expected. 2) I wouldn't advise visiting foreigners to get a sim as it requires passing your passport scans to untrustworthy low-level staff at the cell companies. It worries me how they take the passport to a backroom to scan it. I worry they're selling/distributing copies. I realize hotel staff also scan passports but they have reputations to protect and are less likely to. Google Fi/T-mobile roaming or an e-sim via Airolo are much more appropriate and wise choices for short term travelers. If you know somebody in India however, asking for a SIM is totally fine. You can pay to add funds via an international service like Xoom or an American Express card in the Airtel app (which worked for me occasionally) Protip about American Express cards in India, and the reason I mention it several times. I lost mine last time I was visiting and they sent a new one to my hotel in under 48 hours.
mavelikara 3y ago
Thanks for this information. I am a NRI and I do have a NRO account. Can I use that account for getting a UPI wallet?

signal11 3y ago

1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited) 2) opening an account isn’t practical for tourists, but of course if you’re living in India for even a short while, it’s worth it. 3) Allegedly UPI will work for NRIs / OCIs with foreign phone numbers. In reality most banks haven’t implemented it yet. tl;dr - “onboarding” onto UPI for short-term visitors is mired in burdensome bureaucracy, and this isn’t a technical issue with UPI, it’s a result of conscious choices by Indian regulators. The real win would be if you could load up a UPI wallet like you’d do with PayPal. Perhaps initially restricted to people with a valid visa. But regulators haven’t figured that out yet.

sudshekhar 3y ago
Mentioned this on the parent thread, but there are new UPI apps coming out in the market which don't need a bank account. https://chequpi.com/ https://chequpi.com/ For example
- vinay_ys 3y ago
  Nice and clean! Congrats!
- signal11 3y ago
  This looks really promising, thank you. (And oh, it’s a YC company!) https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460076542865411 https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460... Is there a page which lists others like this?
  - sudshekhar 3y ago
    https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps These two links list all the approved UPI apps in the Indian fintech market. As you can see, the ecosystem is vibrant and ever-growing :) We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date. Fave app and First Rupi(from IDFC) are alternatives you can try if interested.
    - signal11 3y ago
      > We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date. Awesome! I look forward to trying out your app!
- iDon 3y ago
  I used the Cheq app to make UPI payments via smartphone / QR code, during a holiday in India in July. The app listed locations for completing the Know Your Customer (KYC) process - I did this at Transcorp in Bengaluru. It was worth the effort - it is far more convenient than cash in most cases. Most vendors kept little change, and even restaurants were not keen on receiving a 500R note for a 200R meal. Similarly for museums, art galleries, historic buildings. Auto-rickshaw drivers were happy with cash, and had a reasonable amount of change. I did find a couple of vendors who weren't registered as merchants for UPI, and I could only transfer to merchants, not other users. For travellers I'd suggest setting up UPI beforehand if possible; as mentioned you can do it as you fly in (Thomas Cook offers this service in the airport), but the KYC might take a while. (Side-tracking from payments to SIMs : ) Several historic buildings had an online-only ticket process with a QR code displayed outside. The user experience of the websites was variable (navigating the forms and input widgets on a phone while standing in the street could be trying), and they required a lot of information, eg. Passport number and sometimes home address, usually including authentication via one time password sent to mobile phone number and possibly they only work for Indian SIMs. Those sites accepted credit card payment, including international. I couldn't count the number of times I gave my phone number, for all sorts of purposes, e.g. when checking in my phone at a temple, I was photographed and gave my number - simple id and method for finding the phone among all the others (when I realised that I switched the phone back on). And for all of these a local phone number is required, so pick up a local SIM at the airport or in the city. I did both, and I think the airport process was quicker. They do require full id for SIMs, including a local address, e.g. a hotel. A 28-day SIM cost only 299 rupees so I got a second one for increased coverage and capacity, because the networks are over-subscribed. (That's less than the daily rate at home). A dual-SIM phone makes that easy, and I could also run with one local SIM and my home SIM to receive SMSs. I was able to download maps and apps while travelling on buses and trains, and use tracking apps - which helped with knowing when a bus was approaching my stop.

pcthrowaway 3y ago

> Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. > You can get a local prepaid phone number sim at the airport. Worth noting, do all this before you leave the airport. Assuming you land in Delhi, once you leave the airport there's no way to get back in unless you have flight information to show This turned into a pretty big problem for me on my first trip to India once I exited the airport with no way to make phone calls, no data, no sense of where anything was, and no rupees (I hadn't exchanged cash yet)

mattigames 3y ago
Yeah no, it seems likethe best idea it's to not go to India at all and avoid all that trouble.
- user3939382 3y ago
  Riiight.. there’s a problem with money exchange at the airport so the solution is to completely write off an entire subcontinent that’s the home of one of the oldest, richest human cultures.
  - mattigames 3y ago
    Totally, Im sure thats the one and only problem you will face there.
  - pb7 3y ago
    If it’s a massive burden to do something as simple as pay for goods and services then why not? There is a whole world out there that doesn’t suffer from this problem.
    - mavelikara 3y ago
      Currency notes and credit/debit cards work well.
- kryptozinc 3y ago

wtmt 3y ago

> This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone. Online method is not possible since banks and other providers insist on providing Aadhaar number and completing OTP authentication for that mode. Aadhaar is a number given for residents, i.e., anyone who has legally resides in the country for more than 182 days. So a foreigner landing in the country isn’t going to be eligible for it until six months have passed.

kylehotchkiss 3y ago
Having been in a situation where I've asked for one of these accounts, the bank asks for FRRO registration paperwork. If you've ever been to a FRRO, you know they won't actually grant those :)

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

1) This is never explained to visitors in way that'd get their attention - for example, getting a paper from immigration explaining that's available. Too complicated for now. Maybe once this is available outside the airport it's more viable. Strongly recommend visitors to just take out cash, and carry the amount they need per day + 50% on them. Personally I got by living in India for several years primarily using my American Express card which was accepted at more places than I expected. 2) I wouldn't advise visiting foreigners to get a sim as it requires passing your passport scans to untrustworthy low-level staff at the cell companies. It worries me how they take the passport to a backroom to scan it. I worry they're selling/distributing copies. I realize hotel staff also scan passports but they have reputations to protect and are less likely to. Google Fi/T-mobile roaming or an e-sim via Airolo are much more appropriate and wise choices for short term travelers. If you know somebody in India however, asking for a SIM is totally fine. You can pay to add funds via an international service like Xoom or an American Express card in the Airtel app (which worked for me occasionally) Protip about American Express cards in India, and the reason I mention it several times. I lost mine last time I was visiting and they sent a new one to my hotel in under 48 hours.

mavelikara 3y ago

Thanks for this information. I am a NRI and I do have a NRO account. Can I use that account for getting a UPI wallet?