7 ms·

I've always been wary of adopting Discord, at all. Every time I see a business inviting me to a Discord, I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be mis

I've always been wary of adopting Discord, at all. Every time I see a business inviting me to a Discord, I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be mistreated either by the platform or by the company inviting me. I feel like they don't quite understand sound business principles like Platform Risk. If keeping up the business afloat is your mission as a business owner, why'd you base your business off a platform you don't control? You might assume a Platform Risk, and be fully aware of it (and in the meantime, capture the capital to have your own platform or contract services from another platform less volatile), or you might not be aware of it at all, or if you're aware, you just play dumb and say "it won't be a problem, that happens to others, not to me". I just get discouraged, I never end up joining these Discord communities and I don't buy the product/service the company is selling, I feel it distasteful. In these SaaS days where providers can get away with not having a proper Support department or they are too big for you to go ahead and sue them face-to-face... why'd you put your neck on the line this way? It feels so needless.

gruez 3y ago
>Every time I see a business inviting me to a Discord, I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be mistreated either by the platform or by the company inviting me. I feel like they don't quite understand sound business principles like Platform Risk. >If keeping up the business afloat is your mission as a business owner, why'd you base your business off a platform you don't control? [...] Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? Do you feel the same about companies using those platforms as well?
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  AWS and Microsoft are very, very different from Discord. Discord originated in gaming and caters to a largely non-paid user base, that background alone is enough to be skeptical. As terrible as AWS and Microsoft are as companies, at least they have an established reputation in B2B software. It’s an apples to apple-flavored candy comparison.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    > AWS and Microsoft are very, very different from Discord. Discord originated in gaming and caters to a largely non-paid user base, that background alone is enough to be skeptical. AWS originated in providing servers for a book business that grew from there, Microsoft originated from writing a interpreter, but both of them excel in other areas today as well. It's not impossible to start with something (chat for gaming), gain expertise (chat for large groups) and then apply it elsewhere (chat in the workplace).
    - ivanmontillam 3y ago
      > It's not impossible to start with something (chat for gaming), gain expertise (chat for large groups) and then apply it elsewhere (chat in the workplace). I understand what you meant, but it's not quite applicable in this case. Chat for gaming (and approach) is not an adjacent market of workplace/enterprise chat. Just imagine Slack or Microsoft Teams going for gaming chat; you can quite imagine that repurposing of product not happening.
      - capableweb 3y ago
        > Just imagine Slack or Microsoft Teams going for gaming chat; you can quite imagine that repurposing of product not happening. If that ended up being more popular, they definitely would. But I don't think that'd happen either.
    - acdha 3y ago
      AWS and Microsoft were both much larger companies with many years of successful operations by the time they launched cloud services. Discord is both younger as a company and still recently raising new funding founds. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t rely on them but they’re definitely less proven.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        Of course, which is why Discord charges much less then the several hundred dollars per year per seat that Microsoft does? What is the complaint here, that they're offering a much cheaper service with less credibility?
- Root_Denied 3y ago
  A business contract with AWS or O365 account carries a lot more legal weight, and they also have the support infrastructure to assist when an automated tool does something that needs to be assessed for reversal. If something like this happened at AWS they'd nuke the services that were running and probably reach out to the account owner (if the automated service didn't do so as part of the nuke). The account owner's databases or Terraform scripts wouldn't be deleted by a set of EC2 instances being taken down. AWS has its own problems but they do try and stay out of content moderation where possible through their "Shared Responsibility Model" (which also means they don't do things like backups for you).
- ThatPlayer 3y ago
  I'd say the difference is I can make a full backup of my data on office365 or AWS. From office365, I can export my documents, my emails, my drive storage. AWS: I get full access to my databases, my files. Even comparing Discord to Slack: Slack has export capabilities.
  - ivanmontillam 3y ago
    Given what you just said in your comment, I guess what makes them different is that Microsoft 365 and AWS are enterprise-ready, so you can take away your data easily. With Google, with a regular account, you could as well using Google Takeout. With Discord... you might have to strong-arm them into a GDPR claim or similar, so, vendor lock-in in a B2C SaaS is a thing.
- raincole 3y ago
  There is no difference and people saying otherwise are just in denial. Because their businesses/jobs are so tightly tied to AWS etc, they just tell themselves everything is fine. (What else can they do? Quit and be a full time open source developer?)
- DJHenk 3y ago
  > Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? Do you feel the same about companies using those platforms as well? The difference is that Microsoft and AWS don't take on an active role in moderating what happens between the company and its users. But yes, in a way they are similar and I do feel uneasy each time we take on a dependency on some AWS-specific feature where we could easily have build the component to be independent. No one else seems to care though. Even worse, the CEO wants us to dig deep into AWS, because that somehow will make the customers trust us more.
  - cudgy 3y ago
    Didn’t AWS pull the rug out from under a fledgling, but increasingly popular, social media site that never recovered from their actions “after the platform was deemed to be both "unwilling and unable" to address extremist speech”? https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-web-services-parler-lawsuit-user-threats-1561179 https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-web-services-parler-lawsuit-...
    - morkalork 3y ago
      >a fledgling, but increasingly popular, social media site Aww, so innocent sounding. AWS was such a big bully in terminating their relationship with that client. It's not like anybody died as a result of that extremist speech they were popularising, right?
      - Aerbil313 3y ago
        You are saying it’s okay for companies to intervene and censor if they deem it necessary.
      - spurgu 3y ago
        You sound like one of those people who think governments should ban encryption because pedophiles use it.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  > Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? It is different. Really Discord seems run by people with a vague understanding of security, attack vectors, let alone security best practices. (or maybe they are heavily biased towards the gaming audience - but regardless)
  - tester756 3y ago
    What do you mean? Because they seem to be very competent when it comes to software creation
    - raverbashing 3y ago
      They are very competent at bells and whistles and creating something for gamers But in terms of identity management, they're awful
- rpgwaiter 3y ago
  Not OP but yes absolutely. Run your own physical infra or fail
roguas 3y ago
Hm, when you are solo coder doing a product, discord is super valuable. You get to interface with your customers in casual way + you get a bit of free knowledge/quirks base. Also if something is wrong with cloud provider, I can broadcast easily etc. All those functions can be ramped up separately, but the goal for me is to code and deliver on a product. As everything it has tradeoffs, but I wouldn't make snap judgements that discord is just a lazy excuse. Its a great tool for comms with low friction.
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  I hate how hackers and FOSS devs always try to make their “own” project. If there were a FOSS discord clone identical to discord, thousands would self-host it overnight.
  - nkootstra 3y ago
    Like this? https://revolt.chat https://revolt.chat
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      Oh thanks! I recently need something like this but couldn’t find anything.

gruez 3y ago

>Every time I see a business inviting me to a Discord, I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be mistreated either by the platform or by the company inviting me. I feel like they don't quite understand sound business principles like Platform Risk. >If keeping up the business afloat is your mission as a business owner, why'd you base your business off a platform you don't control? [...] Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? Do you feel the same about companies using those platforms as well?

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
AWS and Microsoft are very, very different from Discord. Discord originated in gaming and caters to a largely non-paid user base, that background alone is enough to be skeptical. As terrible as AWS and Microsoft are as companies, at least they have an established reputation in B2B software. It’s an apples to apple-flavored candy comparison.
- capableweb 3y ago
  > AWS and Microsoft are very, very different from Discord. Discord originated in gaming and caters to a largely non-paid user base, that background alone is enough to be skeptical. AWS originated in providing servers for a book business that grew from there, Microsoft originated from writing a interpreter, but both of them excel in other areas today as well. It's not impossible to start with something (chat for gaming), gain expertise (chat for large groups) and then apply it elsewhere (chat in the workplace).
  - ivanmontillam 3y ago
    > It's not impossible to start with something (chat for gaming), gain expertise (chat for large groups) and then apply it elsewhere (chat in the workplace). I understand what you meant, but it's not quite applicable in this case. Chat for gaming (and approach) is not an adjacent market of workplace/enterprise chat. Just imagine Slack or Microsoft Teams going for gaming chat; you can quite imagine that repurposing of product not happening.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      > Just imagine Slack or Microsoft Teams going for gaming chat; you can quite imagine that repurposing of product not happening. If that ended up being more popular, they definitely would. But I don't think that'd happen either.
  - acdha 3y ago
    AWS and Microsoft were both much larger companies with many years of successful operations by the time they launched cloud services. Discord is both younger as a company and still recently raising new funding founds. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t rely on them but they’re definitely less proven.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Of course, which is why Discord charges much less then the several hundred dollars per year per seat that Microsoft does? What is the complaint here, that they're offering a much cheaper service with less credibility?
Root_Denied 3y ago
A business contract with AWS or O365 account carries a lot more legal weight, and they also have the support infrastructure to assist when an automated tool does something that needs to be assessed for reversal. If something like this happened at AWS they'd nuke the services that were running and probably reach out to the account owner (if the automated service didn't do so as part of the nuke). The account owner's databases or Terraform scripts wouldn't be deleted by a set of EC2 instances being taken down. AWS has its own problems but they do try and stay out of content moderation where possible through their "Shared Responsibility Model" (which also means they don't do things like backups for you).
ThatPlayer 3y ago
I'd say the difference is I can make a full backup of my data on office365 or AWS. From office365, I can export my documents, my emails, my drive storage. AWS: I get full access to my databases, my files. Even comparing Discord to Slack: Slack has export capabilities.
- ivanmontillam 3y ago
  Given what you just said in your comment, I guess what makes them different is that Microsoft 365 and AWS are enterprise-ready, so you can take away your data easily. With Google, with a regular account, you could as well using Google Takeout. With Discord... you might have to strong-arm them into a GDPR claim or similar, so, vendor lock-in in a B2C SaaS is a thing.
raincole 3y ago
There is no difference and people saying otherwise are just in denial. Because their businesses/jobs are so tightly tied to AWS etc, they just tell themselves everything is fine. (What else can they do? Quit and be a full time open source developer?)
DJHenk 3y ago
> Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? Do you feel the same about companies using those platforms as well? The difference is that Microsoft and AWS don't take on an active role in moderating what happens between the company and its users. But yes, in a way they are similar and I do feel uneasy each time we take on a dependency on some AWS-specific feature where we could easily have build the component to be independent. No one else seems to care though. Even worse, the CEO wants us to dig deep into AWS, because that somehow will make the customers trust us more.
- cudgy 3y ago
  Didn’t AWS pull the rug out from under a fledgling, but increasingly popular, social media site that never recovered from their actions “after the platform was deemed to be both "unwilling and unable" to address extremist speech”? https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-web-services-parler-lawsuit-user-threats-1561179 https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-web-services-parler-lawsuit-...
  - morkalork 3y ago
    >a fledgling, but increasingly popular, social media site Aww, so innocent sounding. AWS was such a big bully in terminating their relationship with that client. It's not like anybody died as a result of that extremist speech they were popularising, right?
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      You are saying it’s okay for companies to intervene and censor if they deem it necessary.
    - spurgu 3y ago
      You sound like one of those people who think governments should ban encryption because pedophiles use it.
raverbashing 3y ago
> Why is discord any different than other platforms like office365 or AWS? It is different. Really Discord seems run by people with a vague understanding of security, attack vectors, let alone security best practices. (or maybe they are heavily biased towards the gaming audience - but regardless)
- tester756 3y ago
  What do you mean? Because they seem to be very competent when it comes to software creation
  - raverbashing 3y ago
    They are very competent at bells and whistles and creating something for gamers But in terms of identity management, they're awful
rpgwaiter 3y ago
Not OP but yes absolutely. Run your own physical infra or fail

roguas 3y ago

Hm, when you are solo coder doing a product, discord is super valuable. You get to interface with your customers in casual way + you get a bit of free knowledge/quirks base. Also if something is wrong with cloud provider, I can broadcast easily etc. All those functions can be ramped up separately, but the goal for me is to code and deliver on a product. As everything it has tradeoffs, but I wouldn't make snap judgements that discord is just a lazy excuse. Its a great tool for comms with low friction.

Aerbil313 3y ago
I hate how hackers and FOSS devs always try to make their “own” project. If there were a FOSS discord clone identical to discord, thousands would self-host it overnight.
- nkootstra 3y ago
  Like this? https://revolt.chat https://revolt.chat
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    Oh thanks! I recently need something like this but couldn’t find anything.