3 ms·

It's up to you to show that is a good or bad argument It's a bad argument. "Moreover, I shall use force to prevent any other physician from attending to y

It's up to you to show that is a good or bad argument It's a bad argument. "Moreover, I shall use force to prevent any other physician from attending to your ailment". This is illegal. Basically, they are equating union strikers with criminals. It is a particularly bad argument when applied to physicians. The American Medical Association is effectively a labor union of doctors with monopoly control over licensing and legal practice of medicine --- the only such union in the country. Which helps explain why the average US physician earns over $350K a year.

readthenotes1 3y ago
"This is illegal." Is it only illegal for physicians and not sanitation workers, baseball players, or actors?
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  It is illegal for anyone to use force in this way. During the baseball strike of 1994-95, MLB teams hired replacement players. No one used force to prevent it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_replacement_players https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_...
friend_and_foe 3y ago
So a right is only a right if it is not illegal? I'll inform the lawmakers, they will be very pleased about this.
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  So a right is only a right if it is not illegal? Union workers have a right to strike. They don't have the right to use force to prevent others from doing their job. In fact, lots of picket lines in recent years have featured a police presence to enforce this.
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    Do you know anything about the history of striking? Can a scab walk past the picket line and take their job? If not, why not and how do the strikers enforce this? If yes, then what exactly is striking that makes it different from quitting or getting fired?
    - jqpabc123 3y ago
      Do you know anything about modern labor laws? Can a scab walk past the picket line and take their job? Yes --- legally, they absolutely can. And anyone who tries to use force to prevent them can be arrested.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> The American Medical Association is effectively a labor union of doctors with monopoly control over licensing and legal practice of medicine Its a business group not a labor union (it has more in common with the Chamber of Commerce than the AFL-CIO), and it doesn’t have monopoly control over licensing or the legal practice of medicine (which is controlled by state agencies in each state.)
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  which is controlled by state agencies in each state. The National Board of Medical Examiners which administers the US Medical Licensing Exam just happens to be made up of AMA members. You can't get licensed in any state without passing this exam first.
  - jmye 3y ago
    What power are you implying that gives them? Do you think they’ve written the test? Do you think they’re failing people who don’t kowtow to the AMA?
    - jqpabc123 3y ago
      Do you think they've written test? Do you think someone else is responsible? Who would these mystery people be? This test is the gateway to a license to practice medicine. No other union has this sort of legal control over their own industry. They can easily use this test to limit the number of people who are licensed to practice medicine and thus keep salaries of their membership high.
      - jmye 3y ago
        Yes, it’s probably the licensing test, rather than the years of medical school and residency that are weeding people out. Are you aware of the pass/fail rate on the license exams?
nvm0n2 3y ago
It's not illegal if you can convince the government to use force on your behalf. You don't even have to use force. Just erecting entry barriers is good enough. This is why business cartels can form even without using force (not even indirectly). Cartels are considered illegal conspiracies against the public. If unions didn't have protected rights in law, then they'd just be considered labour cartels and also rendered illegal.
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  It's not illegal if you can convince the government to use force on your behalf. Example? I'll wait. Just erecting entry barriers is good enough. A barrier that can prevent entry is the use of force --- and illegal.
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    Example? The one we were just discussing! Doctors have convinced the government to make medicine a licensed profession, so they got the government to use force on their behalf to stop you attending to someone's ailment. There's no legal block to you creating your own company to compete with TSMC or Apple or Google, yet, you won't be able to do it. The sheer amount of effort it needs to compete makes it impractical. Entry barriers are usually created by the effectiveness of the incumbents and lack of any way to get customers when you're the worst option.
    - jqpabc123 3y ago
      As has already been established below, the medical industry is the solitary exception, not the rule.

readthenotes1 3y ago

"This is illegal." Is it only illegal for physicians and not sanitation workers, baseball players, or actors?

jqpabc123 3y ago
It is illegal for anyone to use force in this way. During the baseball strike of 1994-95, MLB teams hired replacement players. No one used force to prevent it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_replacement_players https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_...

friend_and_foe 3y ago

So a right is only a right if it is not illegal? I'll inform the lawmakers, they will be very pleased about this.

jqpabc123 3y ago
So a right is only a right if it is not illegal? Union workers have a right to strike. They don't have the right to use force to prevent others from doing their job. In fact, lots of picket lines in recent years have featured a police presence to enforce this.
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  Do you know anything about the history of striking? Can a scab walk past the picket line and take their job? If not, why not and how do the strikers enforce this? If yes, then what exactly is striking that makes it different from quitting or getting fired?
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    Do you know anything about modern labor laws? Can a scab walk past the picket line and take their job? Yes --- legally, they absolutely can. And anyone who tries to use force to prevent them can be arrested.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> The American Medical Association is effectively a labor union of doctors with monopoly control over licensing and legal practice of medicine Its a business group not a labor union (it has more in common with the Chamber of Commerce than the AFL-CIO), and it doesn’t have monopoly control over licensing or the legal practice of medicine (which is controlled by state agencies in each state.)

jqpabc123 3y ago
which is controlled by state agencies in each state. The National Board of Medical Examiners which administers the US Medical Licensing Exam just happens to be made up of AMA members. You can't get licensed in any state without passing this exam first.
- jmye 3y ago
  What power are you implying that gives them? Do you think they’ve written the test? Do you think they’re failing people who don’t kowtow to the AMA?
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    Do you think they've written test? Do you think someone else is responsible? Who would these mystery people be? This test is the gateway to a license to practice medicine. No other union has this sort of legal control over their own industry. They can easily use this test to limit the number of people who are licensed to practice medicine and thus keep salaries of their membership high.
    - jmye 3y ago
      Yes, it’s probably the licensing test, rather than the years of medical school and residency that are weeding people out. Are you aware of the pass/fail rate on the license exams?

nvm0n2 3y ago

It's not illegal if you can convince the government to use force on your behalf. You don't even have to use force. Just erecting entry barriers is good enough. This is why business cartels can form even without using force (not even indirectly). Cartels are considered illegal conspiracies against the public. If unions didn't have protected rights in law, then they'd just be considered labour cartels and also rendered illegal.

jqpabc123 3y ago
It's not illegal if you can convince the government to use force on your behalf. Example? I'll wait. Just erecting entry barriers is good enough. A barrier that can prevent entry is the use of force --- and illegal.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  Example? The one we were just discussing! Doctors have convinced the government to make medicine a licensed profession, so they got the government to use force on their behalf to stop you attending to someone's ailment. There's no legal block to you creating your own company to compete with TSMC or Apple or Google, yet, you won't be able to do it. The sheer amount of effort it needs to compete makes it impractical. Entry barriers are usually created by the effectiveness of the incumbents and lack of any way to get customers when you're the worst option.
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    As has already been established below, the medical industry is the solitary exception, not the rule.