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In Canada I push a button in my tax app to populate everything from the government database. I then add the things they don’t know about like donations, make so

In Canada I push a button in my tax app to populate everything from the government database. I then add the things they don’t know about like donations, make some choices about my RRSPs, and then file. Maybe ten minutes? One year I totally screwed up and they fixed it for me, giving me a considerably larger return than I filed. So I’m really happy that auto button exists now.

anothermoron 3y ago
[dead]
maccard 3y ago
In the UK it happens automatically for the vast majority of people. You don't even need to think about it.
- gerdesj 3y ago
  PAYE (Pay As You Earn) is automatic for all employees. Anything more complicated involves a P11D ie "benefits". Self assessment nowadays gets all P60 details pre filled in. I run a closed company with two other directors and 20 odd employees. My tax affairs are pretty simple - I don't do anything fancy. It takes me abut 30-60 mins to fill in the HMRC SA questionnaire online. I get a tax calc at the end and I cough up my tax. Dealing with shares etc is pretty straightforward because there is statutory reporting - ie each year you get a standard form declaring all relevant amounts and what to do. Taxation in the UK is pretty easy to deal with unless you want to take the piss, in which case you don't have a leg to stand on. I've been on the receiving end of a HMRC audit and I don't recommend it. Bizarrely I came out better off when they found some additional things I could claim for, which more than offset my cock up that caused the audit, including the fine! That was for a former small business I ran (pre IR35) and I had an accountant, that I promptly fired for obvious reasons.
  - EduardoBautista 3y ago
    The US is also "pay as you earn" and automatically gets deducted from salaries. For most people working as employees, the tax return is just for you to confirm your numbers with the government's, specify any deductions if necessary, and see if you owe any extra or are entitled to a refund. I am honestly surprised that learning how to fill out the IRS form is not part of the high school curriculum. The 1040 form is only two pages long: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf The software to make this isn't too complicated. This has more to do about being able to legally distribute it since an open-source solution could have been distributed already, but there is too much liability in doing so. If you want to add e-file to the software, you have to be approved by the IRS and that's where the lobbying/corruption comes into play.
    - maccard 3y ago
      > For most people working as employees, the tax return is just for you to confirm your numbers with the government's, specify any deductions if necessary, and see if you owe any extra or are entitled to a refund. In the UK, for most people working as employees there is no tax return. There's no numbers to confirm, no deductions, no extras.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Until 2018 there was a 1 page version called 1040EZ
      - mancerayder 3y ago
        What's the story behind its disappearance? I remember filling that out when I first started working long ago.
- markdown 3y ago
  Fiji too. Employees never have to file taxes unless something unusual happens.
  - anticensor 3y ago
    Turkey too.
- Fawlty 3y ago
  Yeah, at this point a bunch of European countries have this setup. As long as you don’t have a complicated source-of-revenue situation (which is true for vast majority of population), you just confirm the tax return on a governmental app and you’re done. It’s extremely convenient, after they implemented a couple of years back, the time needed for tax return each year got down to maybe 2 min if you can use a computer.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    Some take it even further. Inaction is considered approval. So you do not even need to confirm anything at all. You are likely to get tax return on your account automatically. Or a bill send at you. Or you can update details if needed. Still, you have some years to ask for correction even after that, but as usual it is somewhat more complicated.
    - maccard 3y ago
      It's not even that hard if you have a discrepancy. Here in the UK, if you end up with a discrepancy (starting. Anew job, or benefits changes) and it's wrong, 98% of the time a single phone call will resolve the issue.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Insanity 3y ago
Which tax app is that?
tredre3 3y ago
Data access is a good step, but it would be nice if the gov provided tools to do a declaration online. Of course the Provinces would need to get on board. I don't like relying on third party apps. Especially that they're now all cloud based so they keep a copy of all your financials and it sucks. Turbotax even does a credit check (via equifax) on me once a year for god knows what reason...
jonas21 3y ago
It's a similar level of difficulty in the U.S unless you have a really complicated tax situation. All the major tax apps integrate with the payroll companies, banks, and brokerages, so it's just a few clicks to authorize it to import your data. I used to do this and never spent more than 10 or 15 minutes on taxes either.
- underlipton 3y ago
  You underestimate the number of people who a) work for crappy businesses that screw up payroll, b) don't have a bank account, and/or c) traded stocks with Robinhood/Webull or traded crypto last year.
  - jonas21 3y ago
    That's irrelevant to this discussion. a) If they screw up payroll and the numbers reported to the government are wrong, you'd have to correct that even if the government sent you a pre-populated form (and if they screw up payroll, but the numbers are still right, then that's also what gets imported into the tax software). b) If you don't have a bank account, you didn't earn interest from the bank, and there's nothing to report. c) Robinhood, Webull, and Coinbase all integrate with TurboTax. If you were trading crypto without using an exchange, then yeah, that'll be harder to report. But this will be equally hard regardless of whether the government sends you a pre-populated tax form (which won't include these trades).
    - underlipton 3y ago
      a) Well, not quite. As it is, you have to work with your employer to get it fixed. If the government is responsible for populating the form correctly, then you notify them, and they go to your employer. This is the difference between disputing overtime underpayment with your boss and getting the DoL involved. I'll let you guess which is less of a headache for the average worker. b) If you don't have a bank account, paying for tax prep services becomes more complicated. You're also probably using shadow banking services that don't allow you to import info. Have fun doing it manually. c) Ostensibly. In practice, they all had massive issues with correctly reporting cost basis and other important figures. So even with using an exchange, you had issues to deal with (again, manually). So, I'd say it's all quite relevant. Your quick dismissal of such concerns is a large part of the problem.
jessriedel 3y ago
I found the Canadian process much closer to the US process than what you describe. "Everything populating from government databases" didn't happen. I entered in stuff from my T4 slip by hand. Some financial firms linked to TurboTax, some didn't, and even the ones that did took almost as long to get working as doing it by hand.

anothermoron 3y ago

[dead]

maccard 3y ago

In the UK it happens automatically for the vast majority of people. You don't even need to think about it.

gerdesj 3y ago
PAYE (Pay As You Earn) is automatic for all employees. Anything more complicated involves a P11D ie "benefits". Self assessment nowadays gets all P60 details pre filled in. I run a closed company with two other directors and 20 odd employees. My tax affairs are pretty simple - I don't do anything fancy. It takes me abut 30-60 mins to fill in the HMRC SA questionnaire online. I get a tax calc at the end and I cough up my tax. Dealing with shares etc is pretty straightforward because there is statutory reporting - ie each year you get a standard form declaring all relevant amounts and what to do. Taxation in the UK is pretty easy to deal with unless you want to take the piss, in which case you don't have a leg to stand on. I've been on the receiving end of a HMRC audit and I don't recommend it. Bizarrely I came out better off when they found some additional things I could claim for, which more than offset my cock up that caused the audit, including the fine! That was for a former small business I ran (pre IR35) and I had an accountant, that I promptly fired for obvious reasons.
- EduardoBautista 3y ago
  The US is also "pay as you earn" and automatically gets deducted from salaries. For most people working as employees, the tax return is just for you to confirm your numbers with the government's, specify any deductions if necessary, and see if you owe any extra or are entitled to a refund. I am honestly surprised that learning how to fill out the IRS form is not part of the high school curriculum. The 1040 form is only two pages long: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf The software to make this isn't too complicated. This has more to do about being able to legally distribute it since an open-source solution could have been distributed already, but there is too much liability in doing so. If you want to add e-file to the software, you have to be approved by the IRS and that's where the lobbying/corruption comes into play.
  - maccard 3y ago
    > For most people working as employees, the tax return is just for you to confirm your numbers with the government's, specify any deductions if necessary, and see if you owe any extra or are entitled to a refund. In the UK, for most people working as employees there is no tax return. There's no numbers to confirm, no deductions, no extras.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Until 2018 there was a 1 page version called 1040EZ
    - mancerayder 3y ago
      What's the story behind its disappearance? I remember filling that out when I first started working long ago.
markdown 3y ago
Fiji too. Employees never have to file taxes unless something unusual happens.
- anticensor 3y ago
  Turkey too.
Fawlty 3y ago
Yeah, at this point a bunch of European countries have this setup. As long as you don’t have a complicated source-of-revenue situation (which is true for vast majority of population), you just confirm the tax return on a governmental app and you’re done. It’s extremely convenient, after they implemented a couple of years back, the time needed for tax return each year got down to maybe 2 min if you can use a computer.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Some take it even further. Inaction is considered approval. So you do not even need to confirm anything at all. You are likely to get tax return on your account automatically. Or a bill send at you. Or you can update details if needed. Still, you have some years to ask for correction even after that, but as usual it is somewhat more complicated.
  - maccard 3y ago
    It's not even that hard if you have a discrepancy. Here in the UK, if you end up with a discrepancy (starting. Anew job, or benefits changes) and it's wrong, 98% of the time a single phone call will resolve the issue.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Insanity 3y ago

Which tax app is that?

tredre3 3y ago

Data access is a good step, but it would be nice if the gov provided tools to do a declaration online. Of course the Provinces would need to get on board. I don't like relying on third party apps. Especially that they're now all cloud based so they keep a copy of all your financials and it sucks. Turbotax even does a credit check (via equifax) on me once a year for god knows what reason...

jonas21 3y ago

It's a similar level of difficulty in the U.S unless you have a really complicated tax situation. All the major tax apps integrate with the payroll companies, banks, and brokerages, so it's just a few clicks to authorize it to import your data. I used to do this and never spent more than 10 or 15 minutes on taxes either.

underlipton 3y ago
You underestimate the number of people who a) work for crappy businesses that screw up payroll, b) don't have a bank account, and/or c) traded stocks with Robinhood/Webull or traded crypto last year.
- jonas21 3y ago
  That's irrelevant to this discussion. a) If they screw up payroll and the numbers reported to the government are wrong, you'd have to correct that even if the government sent you a pre-populated form (and if they screw up payroll, but the numbers are still right, then that's also what gets imported into the tax software). b) If you don't have a bank account, you didn't earn interest from the bank, and there's nothing to report. c) Robinhood, Webull, and Coinbase all integrate with TurboTax. If you were trading crypto without using an exchange, then yeah, that'll be harder to report. But this will be equally hard regardless of whether the government sends you a pre-populated tax form (which won't include these trades).
  - underlipton 3y ago
    a) Well, not quite. As it is, you have to work with your employer to get it fixed. If the government is responsible for populating the form correctly, then you notify them, and they go to your employer. This is the difference between disputing overtime underpayment with your boss and getting the DoL involved. I'll let you guess which is less of a headache for the average worker. b) If you don't have a bank account, paying for tax prep services becomes more complicated. You're also probably using shadow banking services that don't allow you to import info. Have fun doing it manually. c) Ostensibly. In practice, they all had massive issues with correctly reporting cost basis and other important figures. So even with using an exchange, you had issues to deal with (again, manually). So, I'd say it's all quite relevant. Your quick dismissal of such concerns is a large part of the problem.

jessriedel 3y ago

I found the Canadian process much closer to the US process than what you describe. "Everything populating from government databases" didn't happen. I entered in stuff from my T4 slip by hand. Some financial firms linked to TurboTax, some didn't, and even the ones that did took almost as long to get working as doing it by hand.