10 ms·
Author here! Glad you all enjoyed the article. It was a fun journey into the history of my community. For the record: I am an advocate of walkability and thin
by tylervigen 3y ago
Author here! Glad you all enjoyed the article. It was a fun journey into the history of my community.
For the record: I am an advocate of walkability and think there should be more bridges, not fewer. I just wondered how that one got there given the context of limited walkability in the area.
- bufordtwain 3y agoThat was a great read, particularly the frequent hidden notes :) thanks for taking such an immense amount of time to research and write it all up.
- dang 3y agoThe notes are so good and so amusing that the article is worth reading just to enjoy the notes. Don't miss this rabbit-from-hat moment: Believe it or not, I was specifically trained by the military as a geo-spatial analyst to identify bridges in black and white aerial photographs taken in the 1960s. Also... @tylervigen, the note after "Peter Wilson of the Bridges Division got back to me very quickly" doesn't work for me in either of the browsers I tried. I want to know what about Peter Wilson of the Bridges Division getting back to you quickly merited a note!
- woobar 3y agoFrom the page source: This is an understatement. I sent an email to the Department of Transportation at 11:00PM on Wednesday and Peter responded at 7:48AM on Thursday, which is ZERO BUSINESS HOURS later. This is the fastest response to a data request I have ever received.
- dang 3y agoYou are clever and that was worth it. Thanks!
- joveian 3y agoMost of them, including that one, pop up the full note text if you mouse over (annoying UI but helped for that one note). I appreciate that the notes worked without javascript :).
- tylervigen 3y agoGlad someone appreciated it, because it was a lot of additional work to do it that way!
- gammarator 3y agoAs well as > By the way, about these epic pics: you can't just fly a drone this close to the airport without getting in trouble with the Federal Aviation Administration. This is restricted airspace. That's why I went through the process of requesting and receiving drone flight clearance from the FAA, just so I could show you these photos. You're welcome.
- tylervigen 3y agoFixed! Sorry about that. It's an artifact of my stubborn refusal to use any web editing tools other than Notepad++.
- iandanforth 3y agoReally enjoyed the article! Your tenacity was impressive.
- tiahura 3y agoYou see these "bridges to nowhere" in analogous places in a lot of the midwest. I think the city planner nailed it - it was built in anticipation of development. I.e., back in the 60's they made guesses about growth and some of those guesses were wrong. There are probably many others, but these catch our attention because they're 50 feet up in the air.
- Two9A 3y agoHonestly, you see this all over the world where anticipated development either hasn't materialised or funds have dried up. The A57(M) freeway through Manchester, England was planned to continue from its current endpoint southwards, but the rest of it... never happened. And now there's a bridge over the A34 that doesn't connect to anywhere. As I recall, the M1 emerging from London starts at "Junction 4" and there were three more junctions planned deeper into central London, but that part of the road never happened either.
- RetroTechie 3y agoGreat article! Reminded me of the "Leave as you found" rule: Say you're hiking through some fields, and come upon a fence. If it's open, don't close it. If it's closed, don't pass through leaving it open. Why? Because building a fence takes effort. Maintaining it too. And if whoever built that fence left it open, probably had a good reason to do so. Read: until you understand why it's there & in the state it's in, don't mess with that. If you do know who put the thing there & how it's used, then by all means have at it. And the detective work here: hacker spirit in optima forma! Kudoz to the author.
- pimlottc 3y agoThis is more specifically known as Chesterton’s Fence: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesterton%27s_fence
- markphip 3y agoI really enjoyed this. I did not really know where it was going at first but it got really interesting. My daughter is in school to become an Archivist so it really started to get my attention as I went further into it. I do have to say in the beginning of the post, I was thinking it was going to end up being about pork and politics and in a sense that is how it ended. I loved this so much ... "While I am dedicated to this search, I am not about to fly down to Kansas City to dig through federal archives, especially when those documents may or may not be there... ...just kidding. Of course I flew down to Kansas City to dig through the federal archives" Thanks for creating this
- Macha 3y agoIf you enjoyed this, you might also enjoy two videos from CGP Grey: - The Race to Win Staten Island (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex74x_gqTU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex74x_gqTU0) - Someone dead ruined my life... again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ)
- markphip 3y agoI usually prefer reading to videos but those were excellent. Thanks for the share
- mashygpig 3y agoI thought of these as well while reading the article as they convey the fun aspects of archival visits well (I’ve done a bit of my own and really enjoyed the random “side quest” things you discover along the way). If anyone else has recommendations for things like these (text or video) then I would love to see more!
- echelon 3y agoThis was such a fun read and a fantastic little mystery. Thank you so much for sharing your project with the world and for making it so entertaining. (Glad you found the smoking gun, too.)
- asmithmd1 3y agoThanks for the thorough research, not just on-line, but including calling people. I occasionally go down rabbit holes like this and I have not gotten the helpful responses from officials I have contacted in the New England area. I don't know if I was telegraphing some agenda the officials did not want to further, or if it was because you were dealing with "Minnesota nice" people. I first heard of Minnesota nice when a curmudgeonly co-worker was grumbling about calling Anderson Window, "I hate calling them, they are so effing nice!"
- qingcharles 3y agoThis article is so wholesome, thank you. I was going to just scroll through it real quick, but I got so engrossed and read every word. I died laughing about the Kansas City bit!
- bandyaboot 3y agoThis is the third place I’ve encountered your work in as many days. I first read it from a social media post, then saw it had been covered in the Star Tribune, and now here. Good to see such hard work getting noticed and appreciated.
- flir 3y agoThis was great. I too go on these ridiculous local history research binges, but I've never had a good model of how to write one up. So thanks for the interesting story, and the template.
- DiabloD3 3y agoI enjoyed reading this. Write more, you're good at it.
- tylervigen 3y agoThanks! Means a lot!
- justincormack 3y agoThere were fascinating protests against footbridges when first created in London, as the people felt they were losing their priority against the car. I copied out these notes from the book Leadville about the history of the A40 and the building of the first footbridge here https://www.flickr.com/photos/justincormack/256217251 https://www.flickr.com/photos/justincormack/256217251 The Bridge of Fools, the first footbridge over a road in Britain In 1938 the inhabitants started to protest about the rising death toll on Western Avenue, the "Avenue of Speed and Death". They petitioned the Ministry of Transport to impose a speed limit of twenty-five or thirty miles an hour. The ministry said that would be an "ingenious provision" to save lives, but it would be against "the whole object of constructing a road free from congested traffic". On 21 July 1938 the protestors filed across Western Avenue from the Approach, and then back, causing a huge tailback. The next day the Ministry arranged to build two bridges, one here and one by Gipsy Corner, much to the disgust of the protestors, who thought it would encourage cars to drive faster and to force pedestrians off more roads onto bridges and subways. A week later a thousand people demonstrated again for "their right to cross on the level". In September the hastily erected bridge was complete, and five hundred people demonstrated against it again. The bridge became a tourist attraction and it was "quite usual to see people from other districts coming to look at it". In October torchlight processions were held on the road every evening for a week, with a dog with a red light attached to it and four bearers carrying a coffin, and placards saying "We want crossings not coffins". The war brought and end to the protests, and for a few years the traffic. from Leadville: A Biography of the A40 by Edward Platt
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoSounds like the kind of hypocrisy you'd hear from "urbanists" today: Complain about pedestrian deaths, then complain about a thing that prevents them.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bombcar 3y agoIt’s amusing how nobody complains about pedestrian infrastructure over and under trains.
- userabchn 3y agoAs others have said, it was an enjoyable read, and I thank you (and everyone else involved) for caring. One small bit of feedback: I suggest being a bit more subtle about how much work you did. At times I wondered if you were telling us things just to try to impress us with your dedication rather than because they were an important part of the story.
- kasztelan_ 3y agoHuh, it didn't struck me as such. But maybe because I read it partially over the course of the day. In any case the author DID make a lot of effort researching this and I can imagine it was not always pleasant hitting dead ends.
- quinncom 3y agoHave you spoken with Roman Mars yet? I hope this will be a 99% Invisible episode soon.
- fortran77 3y agoSadly, Howard Kyllo passed away https://www.startribune.com/obituaries/detail/0000423925/ https://www.startribune.com/obituaries/detail/0000423925/
- Reason077 3y agoThe UK has many similar pedestrian bridges crossing motorways and other major roads. There must be thousands of them throughout the country! Wherever there is an existing right of way (ie: foot path or bridal path) you can't just block it by building a motorway or other obstruction. So usually that means building a bridge!
- pm215 3y agoTrue for motorways, but even on busy dual carriageways sometimes the planners just say "the footpath crosses the dual carriageway on the flat", ignoring that this comes pretty near to being an effective closure of the right of way; there are some on the A14 near me like that. This forum thread lists some other examples: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41259 https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41259
- ralferoo 3y agoThere are a couple of instances of this on the A45 just after you leave Coventry going towards Birmingham. Some of these were later closed off entirely (the A45 has been there a long time, but some roads I used to cycle on 15 years ago and now closed). There's one or two that I would take my chance on when cycling, but there's simply no way to cross safely as a pedestrian because of the curvature of the road restricting visibility and the speed limit. One nice change is that the new road junctions to Birmingham airport now mean that there are more cycleable bridges again. As to the GP's comment, since I got a gravel bike, I've been exploring a lot of random routes that are basically underused footpaths (because they don't really go anywhere useful) that cross the motorway in delightfully over-engineered ways, for instance a narrow path through a field of crops, a stile then a nice tarmac'd two lane bridge and a stile to another field on the other side.
- adolph 3y agoY’all even have bridges for boats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct
- 3y ago
- samstave 3y agoWe need a bunch of pre-fab structural designs that municipalities can put in quickly and affordable for various span lengths. The American river could benefit a ton from this, as can all sorts of waterways in urban environments. Every bridge doesn't need to be unique and if we had a design contest which balanced aesthetics with durability and quality we should have a library of several design styles and have them placed over thin waters everywhere
- bombcar 3y agoWe need federal “no permit” guidelines for such - often the cost of the materials and labor is the lowest part. You often end up having to determine if the waterway is considered “navigable” even if nobody could ever run a boat up it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dang 3y agoOuch. You've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines a lot lately. If you keep doing that, we're going to have to ban you, and eventually your main account as well. I don't want to do that, so could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to using HN in the intended spirit instead? (That means thoughtful, respectful conversation on topics you're genuinely curious about.) We'd be grateful.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dang 3y agoAppreciated!
- Fatnino 3y agoI suspect that some of the bridges that lead to "parks" may have been leading to schools that no longer exist where those parks are now. Might be worth digging into the history of those few parks. Many parks around me in the bay area started life as the field for a school. Then the school closed as the boomers cycled through and it became just a park.
- tylervigen 3y agoI did actually check for that! I didn't see schools nearby enough to make sense for the ones I labeled "park."
- db48x 3y ago> … limited walkability in the area. One thing that I really like about your article, aside from the many things that others have already mentioned, is that it shows how much perceptions have changed. 50 years ago, this area was so easily walked that schoolchildren walked to and from school every day. Families walked to church every week. They didn’t need a dozen shops on every block in order to make walking worth–while. They didn’t care about a few parking lots even completely empty lots. They didn’t need sidewalks to feel safe while walking, or bicycle lanes. Today we say that it has “limited walkability”.
- avianlyric 3y agoToday over 7000 pedestrians are killed in the U.S. every year, and the number is going up, not down. Today cars are heavier, faster, and more deadly to pedestrians than ever before. Today isn’t a good time to be a pedestrian in the U.S.
- wilg 3y agoMost interestingly, the number of pedestrian deaths has only been going up very recently, since 2010. Before that it was decreasing. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedes...
- db48x 3y agoPlus, pedestrian deaths are most likely at night, presumably due to the decreased visibility. The statistics also show the lowest death rate amongst children, and the highest amongst the elderly (with middle–aged adults barely overtaking the elderly in this race in the last couple of years). School children thus seem to be the least at risk, though I don’t know why; it could be because they no longer walk to and from school, or it could be because they are more likely to survive an accident than the elderly are, but neither of those explain the much larger drop in deaths amongst the elderly pedestrians. And of course national averages tell us nothing about the specific location in question. Still, I agree that the pedestrian accident rate really ought to be lower. A lot lower! I also think that the pedestrian accident rate is just not high enough to declare that areas like this are unsafe to walk in. Especially with a dedicated pedestrian bridge that allows people to avoid the car traffic at the busy service interchanges to the east and west. No, when people talk about the “walkability” of an area, they are almost always talking about the sheer density of businesses in the area not about safety. How they can walk to the grocery store, and their dentist, and their favorite bar, and also three different art galleries. How everything they need is never more than a 15–minute walk away. How each parking lot represents a wasted opportunity, because there are no services there, and nobody lives there either. But when this bridge was built they clearly were willing to walk further to access vital services like the school, past any number of parking lots. People are just a lot pickier today than they were in the past.
- xcskier56 3y agoYou missed a bridge in your map! There’s another random pedestrian bridge over 394 near Louisiana. Connects some strip malls to a Burger King and car dealership. I finally used it when I went for a run to pick up my car from the dealer
- tylervigen 3y agoActually skipping those two was intentional! They were built in the 1990s, but I was specifically looking for pedestrian bridges built in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. The reasons for building bridges seemed to shift over the decades, so I wanted to focus in on the ones built in the same era as the interstates were being built out.
- impetus21 3y agoI have a few ghost mine stories I would like to dig deeper on, but the people who worked on the tunnels, are dead. I would like to connect and see if I can't learn more. Anywho, this is inspirational and good shooting, tex.
- caf 3y agoThe question I was left with at the end was: is the Catholic school still there at the church? If so, do the students still walk/ride to school using the bridge?