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But what killed the chicks? There's no mention of it in the article! Neither the eggs or penguins require ice... And if there is no ice, the penguins would s

But what killed the chicks? There's no mention of it in the article! Neither the eggs or penguins require ice... And if there is no ice, the penguins would surely go on to land, eg nearby Rothschild island. I don't get it - lack of ice doesn't kill things.

omnicognate 3y ago
In the article: > Emperor penguin colonies rely on sea ice between April and January to breed, but any change to their habitat impacts whether chicks develop waterproof feathers, and ultimately survive. AIUI they breed on sea ice. If the ice melts before the chicks have developed waterproof feathers they drown.
- dcanelhas 3y ago
  Possibly lack of waterproofing leads to constantly getting cold water in contact with their bodies and they freeze to death.
  - verisimi 3y ago
    Yes, we can imagine this or that, but we don't find it from the article. Of course there is also the issue that no information about Antarctica can be confirmed by citizen journalists as the whole world (US, UK, Russia, China, etc) all agreed to preserve this continent and Antarctica can never even be felt explored by the public. Anyway, Antarctic information is certainly mediated for us.
- verisimi 3y ago
  Cheers. So the chicks did survive, but then drowned because their feathers weren't waterproof, when they went to swim? Or the ice melted from under them, before they were ready? Emperor penguins can be breed in captivity, btw. So it can't be that ice is required. It must be that the environment needs to be stable. But then the article says it was the lack of ice that did it, not the changing of the environmental conditions.
  - Tomte 3y ago
    > Emperor penguins can be breed in captivity, btw. So it can't be that ice is required. You think the technology to create ice has not been invented, yet?
    - verisimi 3y ago
      Ha! I believe it exists. :) I probably should have said that the temperature in captivity isn't likely to be the same as that in Antarctica. I might be wrong, but I don't see them dropping the temperature to -70 degrees or whatever in captivity.
      - unlikelymordant 3y ago
        If the sea ice melts and the chicks drown before they develop waterproof feathers, then the melting ice could easily be the culprit, and still captive breeding would work.
      - genezeta 3y ago
        Captivity environments for Emperor penguins are kept around 0C (32F), which is easy to do. Your fridge can do it. In Antarctica, they usually live on the coast, where average temperatures are around -10C to 10C, not as extreme as in the interior (-40 to -60C).
- tremon 3y ago
  Your explanation makes more sense, but that's not what the quoted text is saying. The text makes it seem that if the chicks don't grow up on (sufficient) sea ice, they may not develop waterproof feathers at all. Or is there some Australian-specific meaning of "impacts" that I'm unaware of?
croes 3y ago
https://www.science.org/content/article/emperor-penguins-abandon-breeding-grounds-ice-melts-around-them https://www.science.org/content/article/emperor-penguins-aba...
- woolybully 3y ago
  Thank you so much for this link. This article is so much more informative than the article of the title of this thread, which does, in my opinion, more harm than good to the pro-climate change crowd with its misleading catastrophizing.
ryu2k2 3y ago
We did. As can be inferred from the title alone.
dmkolobov 3y ago
It’s a bit anthropomorphic to assume that large populations of birds can adapt their behavior to rapid changes in their environment on a short timescale. There’s no central planning to penguin behavior as far as I’m aware of. The fact that some emperor penguins can be made to breed in captivity without ice does not mean that enough penguins in the wild will do so without human intervention. Evolution is trial and error. Maybe eventually they would change their breeding behaviors to rely less on ice in the wild. Or maybe a rapidly changing environment will cause enough members of this endangered species to go the “error” route, and trigger a population collapse.

omnicognate 3y ago

In the article: > Emperor penguin colonies rely on sea ice between April and January to breed, but any change to their habitat impacts whether chicks develop waterproof feathers, and ultimately survive. AIUI they breed on sea ice. If the ice melts before the chicks have developed waterproof feathers they drown.

dcanelhas 3y ago
Possibly lack of waterproofing leads to constantly getting cold water in contact with their bodies and they freeze to death.
- verisimi 3y ago
  Yes, we can imagine this or that, but we don't find it from the article. Of course there is also the issue that no information about Antarctica can be confirmed by citizen journalists as the whole world (US, UK, Russia, China, etc) all agreed to preserve this continent and Antarctica can never even be felt explored by the public. Anyway, Antarctic information is certainly mediated for us.
verisimi 3y ago
Cheers. So the chicks did survive, but then drowned because their feathers weren't waterproof, when they went to swim? Or the ice melted from under them, before they were ready? Emperor penguins can be breed in captivity, btw. So it can't be that ice is required. It must be that the environment needs to be stable. But then the article says it was the lack of ice that did it, not the changing of the environmental conditions.
- Tomte 3y ago
  > Emperor penguins can be breed in captivity, btw. So it can't be that ice is required. You think the technology to create ice has not been invented, yet?
  - verisimi 3y ago
    Ha! I believe it exists. :) I probably should have said that the temperature in captivity isn't likely to be the same as that in Antarctica. I might be wrong, but I don't see them dropping the temperature to -70 degrees or whatever in captivity.
    - unlikelymordant 3y ago
      If the sea ice melts and the chicks drown before they develop waterproof feathers, then the melting ice could easily be the culprit, and still captive breeding would work.
    - genezeta 3y ago
      Captivity environments for Emperor penguins are kept around 0C (32F), which is easy to do. Your fridge can do it. In Antarctica, they usually live on the coast, where average temperatures are around -10C to 10C, not as extreme as in the interior (-40 to -60C).
tremon 3y ago
Your explanation makes more sense, but that's not what the quoted text is saying. The text makes it seem that if the chicks don't grow up on (sufficient) sea ice, they may not develop waterproof feathers at all. Or is there some Australian-specific meaning of "impacts" that I'm unaware of?

croes 3y ago

https://www.science.org/content/article/emperor-penguins-abandon-breeding-grounds-ice-melts-around-them https://www.science.org/content/article/emperor-penguins-aba...

woolybully 3y ago
Thank you so much for this link. This article is so much more informative than the article of the title of this thread, which does, in my opinion, more harm than good to the pro-climate change crowd with its misleading catastrophizing.

ryu2k2 3y ago

We did. As can be inferred from the title alone.

dmkolobov 3y ago

It’s a bit anthropomorphic to assume that large populations of birds can adapt their behavior to rapid changes in their environment on a short timescale. There’s no central planning to penguin behavior as far as I’m aware of. The fact that some emperor penguins can be made to breed in captivity without ice does not mean that enough penguins in the wild will do so without human intervention. Evolution is trial and error. Maybe eventually they would change their breeding behaviors to rely less on ice in the wild. Or maybe a rapidly changing environment will cause enough members of this endangered species to go the “error” route, and trigger a population collapse.