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I’m torn. On the one hand, I respect the need to iterate internally. After all, that worked well for Clojure, a language that I find productive and often enjoy

I’m torn. On the one hand, I respect the need to iterate internally. After all, that worked well for Clojure, a language that I find productive and often enjoy using. And I don’t think the assumptions that it’s vaporware are very fair. On the other hand, Jai has been in development for so long, it is a little tiresome to hear people sing the praises of something that isn’t available for general use or evaluation.

pengaru 3y ago
> it is a little tiresome to hear people sing the praises of something that isn’t available for general use or evaluation I think the pattern is 100% consistent with today's game developer mindset. He's basically giving Early Access via the beta group. He's streamed a lot of development time using the language, surely in part to generate interest and hype, as well as provide guidance to those in the beta group. It's no surprise some of the fallout is a tiresome level of praise. The vast majority of his fan-base aren't even experienced enough to have an informed critical opinion of any programming language. They're just gamer fan-boys. IMO it's best to just ignore Jai's existence and whatever these probable clowns are singing in praise, until it's generally available. What we have today in Jai is more like an unfinished pre-print paper uploaded to arxiv generating a bit of hype from the author's fan-base. The jury's still out on if it's any good. If you have time to waste, just watch some of his programming streams - there's enough being done with the language there to form an opinion on if it's remotely compelling to you.
- actuallyalys 3y ago
  > The vast majority of his fan-base aren't even experienced enough to have an informed critical opinion of any programming language. Th at would certainly explain a lot. I’m curious whether this is based on the kind of opinions they offer or if they have actually shared their level of expertise.
  - pengaru 3y ago
    I'm just basing it on the quality of discourse I've observed in the twitch streams... there are several Jai Beta Q&A streams which particularly select for people in the beta. Surely there are some experienced people in the beta playing with the language, but I highly doubt they're who's responsible for the tiresome levels of hype. He's a role model for a lot of budding young game developers, being an indie success story via Braid and The Witness has that effect.

pengaru 3y ago

> it is a little tiresome to hear people sing the praises of something that isn’t available for general use or evaluation I think the pattern is 100% consistent with today's game developer mindset. He's basically giving Early Access via the beta group. He's streamed a lot of development time using the language, surely in part to generate interest and hype, as well as provide guidance to those in the beta group. It's no surprise some of the fallout is a tiresome level of praise. The vast majority of his fan-base aren't even experienced enough to have an informed critical opinion of any programming language. They're just gamer fan-boys. IMO it's best to just ignore Jai's existence and whatever these probable clowns are singing in praise, until it's generally available. What we have today in Jai is more like an unfinished pre-print paper uploaded to arxiv generating a bit of hype from the author's fan-base. The jury's still out on if it's any good. If you have time to waste, just watch some of his programming streams - there's enough being done with the language there to form an opinion on if it's remotely compelling to you.

actuallyalys 3y ago
> The vast majority of his fan-base aren't even experienced enough to have an informed critical opinion of any programming language. Th at would certainly explain a lot. I’m curious whether this is based on the kind of opinions they offer or if they have actually shared their level of expertise.
- pengaru 3y ago
  I'm just basing it on the quality of discourse I've observed in the twitch streams... there are several Jai Beta Q&A streams which particularly select for people in the beta. Surely there are some experienced people in the beta playing with the language, but I highly doubt they're who's responsible for the tiresome levels of hype. He's a role model for a lot of budding young game developers, being an indie success story via Braid and The Witness has that effect.