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That's why it's so frustrating when people point at homeless people having smartphones and snarkily say oh they aren't really poor, why would they have a smartp

That's why it's so frustrating when people point at homeless people having smartphones and snarkily say oh they aren't really poor, why would they have a smartphone if "allegedly" they can't afford food. Well the answer is that in modern life it's literally impossible to access basic infrastructure of many places without a smartphone. It's an absolute necessity unless you want to be a nomad and live in the wilderness.

imhoguy 3y ago
Yep, that is common argument against refugees. "They come on foot with smartphones, they are not poor". They keep translator app, map, documents, priceless memories as photos, contacts with relatives - it is all they own apart of backpack of cloths. I wouldn't step onto another country's soil without that.
jjgreen 3y ago
I don't have a phone, I don't live as a nomad in the wilderness. Well, in London, which is a bit of a wilderness.
- gambiting 3y ago
  I mean, cool? Fortunately in the UK a lot of services are still available offline, but it's rapidly changing.
ahartmetz 3y ago
Wasn't it 5-10 years ago that people said that? I think it's understood these days that smartphones are important to have (for better or for worse) and dirt cheap if you just need a smartphone, any smartphone.
- morelisp 3y ago
  It was 10 years ago they were upset poor people had refrigerators. https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-appliances-downplay-hardship-poverty-america https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-...
LinuxBender 3y ago
Is this a European thing? Or maybe a recent big city thing? I am in the US and I have no apps on my phone. I use it for texting and phone calls, nothing more. Everything I could do in the 1970's, 1990's, 2010's I can do today just fine without a phone. For context a couple of years ago I had to take BART into SF to visit some overpriced lawyers. Paid cash for my BART ticket at the ticket machine. I stopped at a coffee shop and bought a coffee, paid with cash. The reason I ask is that I am concerned. Anything Europeans do eventually parts of the US will mimic.
- ghaff 3y ago
  >Everything I could do in the 1970's, 1990's, 2010's I can do today just fine without a phone. I think it's a few things. - Integration of stuff like GPS that can be done on a dedicated device but are easily done better on a phone through an app. - Ready access to information on the go. (Much of which wan't really available on the go until the 2000s.) There's a lot you could do once the smartphone came out that you didn't have access to before. But there's a lot in general I can do today that I couldn't in the 1970s/80s. - And yes, there are apps for things like parking, public transit, rideshare, airline notifications etc. that are more generally relevant if you're traveling and in cities.
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    That's not so bad. I still use dedicated GPS. I suppose the downside is that a couple times a year I have to pull down map updates for it. All of the other things you mention don't sound like requirements but rather additive data or interaction but not strictly required. Nice to have's I suppose.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      As someone else mentioned, it's probably also true in Europe that a lot of people would see having WhatsApp as close to essential. But, in the US, SMS is pretty universal and certainly for any service you need.
II2II 3y ago
In a sense, they are right. Survival is about meeting your immediate essential needs. Of course, they are also very wrong. Opportunities to escape poverty are lost when you are only trying to fulfill your immediate needs, then there are the psychological ramifications of being vulnerable and in constant need for aid from others. There is a reason why we have built our technological societies. It goes well beyond the personal gratification we get from gadgets or fine foods. We do it because it offers security of being and the ability to make our world a better place.
- wheelerof4te 3y ago
  "There is a reason why we have built our technological societies. It goes well beyond the personal gratification we get from gadgets or fine foods. We do it because it offers security of being and the ability to make our world a better place." "We" haven't built anything. A group of very powerful people planned this locked-down, dystopian world we currently live in and worked on achieving that plan. You and I are simply living in the world they envisioned.
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    It's been going on since at least Enclosure, and probably since the dawn of agriculture.
rex_gallorum2 3y ago
I've read that they have to be reachable in order to get any kind of state benefits, and being unreachable leads to automatic disqualification - which is a big problem as homeless people often lose their phones or have them stolen. As far as smartphones being a necessity goes, I have never owned a smartphone myself, and do not carry any phone at all most of the time. I have just gone on living like I did before smartphones, though I am aware that I am locked out of more and more things. I am beginning to resent things like parking that requires a smartphone. I don't understand the lack of back up options. Rather than insisting on 'smartphones as a human right', I'd rather see 'opting out' as a human right.
dredmorbius 3y ago
A/K/A "Maslow's Smartphone": <https://web.archive.org/web/20230603005201/https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vwfb6/maslows_smartphone_the_role_of_technology_in/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230603005201/https://old.reddi...>.

imhoguy 3y ago

Yep, that is common argument against refugees. "They come on foot with smartphones, they are not poor". They keep translator app, map, documents, priceless memories as photos, contacts with relatives - it is all they own apart of backpack of cloths. I wouldn't step onto another country's soil without that.

jjgreen 3y ago

I don't have a phone, I don't live as a nomad in the wilderness. Well, in London, which is a bit of a wilderness.

gambiting 3y ago
I mean, cool? Fortunately in the UK a lot of services are still available offline, but it's rapidly changing.

ahartmetz 3y ago

Wasn't it 5-10 years ago that people said that? I think it's understood these days that smartphones are important to have (for better or for worse) and dirt cheap if you just need a smartphone, any smartphone.

morelisp 3y ago
It was 10 years ago they were upset poor people had refrigerators. https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-appliances-downplay-hardship-poverty-america https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-...

LinuxBender 3y ago

Is this a European thing? Or maybe a recent big city thing? I am in the US and I have no apps on my phone. I use it for texting and phone calls, nothing more. Everything I could do in the 1970's, 1990's, 2010's I can do today just fine without a phone. For context a couple of years ago I had to take BART into SF to visit some overpriced lawyers. Paid cash for my BART ticket at the ticket machine. I stopped at a coffee shop and bought a coffee, paid with cash. The reason I ask is that I am concerned. Anything Europeans do eventually parts of the US will mimic.

ghaff 3y ago
>Everything I could do in the 1970's, 1990's, 2010's I can do today just fine without a phone. I think it's a few things. - Integration of stuff like GPS that can be done on a dedicated device but are easily done better on a phone through an app. - Ready access to information on the go. (Much of which wan't really available on the go until the 2000s.) There's a lot you could do once the smartphone came out that you didn't have access to before. But there's a lot in general I can do today that I couldn't in the 1970s/80s. - And yes, there are apps for things like parking, public transit, rideshare, airline notifications etc. that are more generally relevant if you're traveling and in cities.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  That's not so bad. I still use dedicated GPS. I suppose the downside is that a couple times a year I have to pull down map updates for it. All of the other things you mention don't sound like requirements but rather additive data or interaction but not strictly required. Nice to have's I suppose.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    As someone else mentioned, it's probably also true in Europe that a lot of people would see having WhatsApp as close to essential. But, in the US, SMS is pretty universal and certainly for any service you need.

II2II 3y ago

In a sense, they are right. Survival is about meeting your immediate essential needs. Of course, they are also very wrong. Opportunities to escape poverty are lost when you are only trying to fulfill your immediate needs, then there are the psychological ramifications of being vulnerable and in constant need for aid from others. There is a reason why we have built our technological societies. It goes well beyond the personal gratification we get from gadgets or fine foods. We do it because it offers security of being and the ability to make our world a better place.

wheelerof4te 3y ago
"There is a reason why we have built our technological societies. It goes well beyond the personal gratification we get from gadgets or fine foods. We do it because it offers security of being and the ability to make our world a better place." "We" haven't built anything. A group of very powerful people planned this locked-down, dystopian world we currently live in and worked on achieving that plan. You and I are simply living in the world they envisioned.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  It's been going on since at least Enclosure, and probably since the dawn of agriculture.

rex_gallorum2 3y ago

I've read that they have to be reachable in order to get any kind of state benefits, and being unreachable leads to automatic disqualification - which is a big problem as homeless people often lose their phones or have them stolen. As far as smartphones being a necessity goes, I have never owned a smartphone myself, and do not carry any phone at all most of the time. I have just gone on living like I did before smartphones, though I am aware that I am locked out of more and more things. I am beginning to resent things like parking that requires a smartphone. I don't understand the lack of back up options. Rather than insisting on 'smartphones as a human right', I'd rather see 'opting out' as a human right.

dredmorbius 3y ago

A/K/A "Maslow's Smartphone": <https://web.archive.org/web/20230603005201/https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vwfb6/maslows_smartphone_the_role_of_technology_in/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230603005201/https://old.reddi...>.