5 ms·
I think Apple was doing the exact opposite. They wanted to do the __least possible thing__ in order to stave away the far worse outcome of intelligence departme
by simondotau 3y ago
I think Apple was doing the exact opposite. They wanted to do the __least possible thing__ in order to stave away the far worse outcome of intelligence departments using the "it's for our children" excuse to pressure elected representatives to vote for back doors on consumer encryption.
The ridiculous thing is that Apple's proposal was functionally identical to what other platform vendors (e.g. Google, Microsoft) were already doing. In all cases — including Apple's proposed system — only photos uploaded to cloud storage would be scanned to see if it matched CSAM already known to the government. The only difference with Apple's proposal was initial "fuzzy hash" calculation would be performed on-device prior to upload, instead of on-cloud after upload.
The reason for doing it differently was because it meant (in theory) satisfying both masters — implementing real end-to-end encryption, while not being seen as a CSAM scanning laggard compared to Google, Microsoft, etc.
Other vendors just scan all your shit and nobody cares.
- fmajid 3y agoSignal and Meta (WhatsApp) don’t scan your messages. Apple’s actions have shown they are untrustworthy, and even if they’ve reversed this particular decision, compromising on principle has put authoritarians on notice they are open to compromise in the future, like the UK’s horrific Online Safety Bill.
- simondotau 3y agoPointing out a few app vendors simply isn't impressive. Of course some app vendors can take a stand against mid-tier governments. It's great marketing for them, and the corporate risk isn't so high. It's the platform vendors which have much at stake. And of the three big platform vendors, two of them already scan private photos for CSAM right now — Google and Microsoft. Yet nobody is outraged because nobody actually cares. There's no logical consistency. Google and Microsoft can implement scanning and there's no outrage. Apple went to great lengths to tell everyone exactly what they were proposing to do before they did it, and all the online people are outraged and calling Apple untrustworthy. Sure, whatever.
- fmajid 3y agoNeither Google nor Microsoft operate a secure messaging platform that matters (email, yes, but email security is a lost cause), unlike WhatsApp (and Facebook Messenger), iMessage, Telegram or Signal. I'm not giving Google & Microsoft a pass, they're just irrelevant for the discussion at hand.
- FabHK 3y agoThe CSAM scanning Apple abandoned, ie the topic at hand, was for the cloud, like the one operated by Google or Microsoft. You switched the topic to secure messaging platforms, which are irrelevant for the discussion at hand.
- simondotau 3y agoWhy are Google and Microsoft irrelevant to this discussion? Please, be specific.
- salawat 3y agoWholesale scanning of private data is unaaceptable, and the fact you engage in such mental gymnastics to justify it is a sign that everyone should be distrusting any platform by default. Simple as. Enjoy the exodus.
- simondotau 3y agoYour first sentence makes no sense. Perhaps you meant to say: "Wholesale scanning of private data is unacceptable therefore everyone should be distrusting any platform by default." That's a statement I would agree with. I reject the claim of "mental gymnastics" as a meme bereft of substance, and specifically in this instance, as an unproven hypothesis. But even if I granted the inference, I don't see how overly elaborate argumentation could have any explanatory power for the trustworthiness (or otherwise) of major platforms. I'm curious, why do you think I'm advocating trust in any platform? And I'm curious why you think that I have any concern one way or another for an "exodus" from any platform? Really, I'm just replying to say that while I think I understand the gist of the tone of your reply, I don't actually understand anything you wrote. And my hope is that you can clarify, because — and I say this with all sincerity — I really am genuinely curious.