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I understand the argument that you shouldn't need a smartphone for everyday tasks but you can get a perfectly serviceable one for $100-$200 and I feel like this

I understand the argument that you shouldn't need a smartphone for everyday tasks but you can get a perfectly serviceable one for $100-$200 and I feel like this shouldn't be a burden for a college student.

rsolva 3y ago
Price is not the only reason to not get a smartphone, not participating in surveilance captalism also plays a part for some. I have found a compromise with a de-googled phone, but I have considered switching to a dumb phone more than once.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yes because paying with a credit card gives you lots of anonymity…
  - flangola7 3y ago
    Hello, cash? At least credit card isn't a continuous and multi-sensor surveillance device.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      And then they have to hire someone to go by and get cash from each of the machines.
      - Mordisquitos 3y ago
        > And then they have to hire someone to go by and get cash from each of the machines. Are hiring costs really such a deciding factor? By relying on an app, they have to hire teams to develop and maintain at least two mobile apps, probably another team to develop and maintain the 'Laundry Pod' device, at least two teams to develop and maintain the laundry machine endpoints (hardware and software), teams to develop and maintain the backend services, technical support staff to offer first-level customer support for any IT issue, and (hopefully) a competent infosec team to keep their platform secure. And that's without taking into account the IT infrastructure expenditures. If they can afford all that, they can afford some low-wage cash-picker-uppers... but why would they even need them? They could simply provide the organisation that is renting out the laundry equipment with the keys to get the cash themselves. Washlava can invoice the renters for whatever flat or per-usage fee, with no need to even touch the cash.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        That’s a fixed cost versus variable cost. That’s just like asking why you can’t call Google when you want to perform a search and have someone do it for you. I don’t believe people on HN don’t understand why you shouldn’t do things that don’t scale.
        Mordisquitos 3y ago
        I think you missed the part where I pointed out that hiring somebody to "pick up the cash" is not even necessary. If scaling is the issue, invoicing the institutions hosting the laundry equipment a flat or a per-usage fee (whatever best suits the business model), and having them deal with the cash still scales much better than the whole infrastructure and headcount required to unnecessarily shoehorn an app into paying for using a washing machine.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - rsolva 3y ago
    Come to think of it, I have never bought a new smartphone, it has always been second hand devices. I do use a debit card for everyday shopping though, but having a google-enabled phone on your person at all times that you constantly interact with is another level of potential for surveillance.
mixmastamyk 3y ago
Price hasn't been the main problem in years. Everyone likely has a cousin or friend with an old smartphone collecting dust in a drawer that could be had practically free. The biggest problems are loss of autonomy, privacy, and redundancy. Whole life dependent on G and A corps? Accounts that can be banned on a whim with no recourse? No thank you. ((extends middle finger))
- scarface_74 3y ago
  But you’re okay with using a credit card - controlled by Amex, Visa and Mastercard
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Reading comprehension is important and must be developed and tended like a garden.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      > The biggest problems are loss of autonomy, privacy, and redundancy. Whole life dependent on G and A corps? Accounts that can be banned on a whim with no recourse? No thank you. ((extends middle finger)) This all applies to credit card companies. Try running a porn site and accepting payments with credit cards
      - mixmastamyk 3y ago
        I'm not okay with that either. (Although PCI DSS and banking regulations do present a limit to their potential shenanigans.) A secondary in any case, as issues have well-developed remediation strategies. Few regular folks are banned from the financial system without recourse. I get it. You wanted to be edgy and shoot from the hip, but this time pulled the trigger too fast.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        > secondary in any case, as issues have well-developed remediation strategies. Few regular folks are banned from the financial system without recourse. Here is where you are wrong https://finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-keeping-closer-tab-reputation-113200013.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-keeping-closer-tab-repu... Try running a perfectly legal porn website or anything controversial and try getting a merchant account. I had a friend who ran party buses that catered to the LGBT community and had a hard time getting a merchant account while others in her same industry didn’t have a problem.

rsolva 3y ago

Price is not the only reason to not get a smartphone, not participating in surveilance captalism also plays a part for some. I have found a compromise with a de-googled phone, but I have considered switching to a dumb phone more than once.

scarface_74 3y ago
Yes because paying with a credit card gives you lots of anonymity…
- flangola7 3y ago
  Hello, cash? At least credit card isn't a continuous and multi-sensor surveillance device.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    And then they have to hire someone to go by and get cash from each of the machines.
    - Mordisquitos 3y ago
      > And then they have to hire someone to go by and get cash from each of the machines. Are hiring costs really such a deciding factor? By relying on an app, they have to hire teams to develop and maintain at least two mobile apps, probably another team to develop and maintain the 'Laundry Pod' device, at least two teams to develop and maintain the laundry machine endpoints (hardware and software), teams to develop and maintain the backend services, technical support staff to offer first-level customer support for any IT issue, and (hopefully) a competent infosec team to keep their platform secure. And that's without taking into account the IT infrastructure expenditures. If they can afford all that, they can afford some low-wage cash-picker-uppers... but why would they even need them? They could simply provide the organisation that is renting out the laundry equipment with the keys to get the cash themselves. Washlava can invoice the renters for whatever flat or per-usage fee, with no need to even touch the cash.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        That’s a fixed cost versus variable cost. That’s just like asking why you can’t call Google when you want to perform a search and have someone do it for you. I don’t believe people on HN don’t understand why you shouldn’t do things that don’t scale.
        Mordisquitos 3y ago
        I think you missed the part where I pointed out that hiring somebody to "pick up the cash" is not even necessary. If scaling is the issue, invoicing the institutions hosting the laundry equipment a flat or a per-usage fee (whatever best suits the business model), and having them deal with the cash still scales much better than the whole infrastructure and headcount required to unnecessarily shoehorn an app into paying for using a washing machine.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- rsolva 3y ago
  Come to think of it, I have never bought a new smartphone, it has always been second hand devices. I do use a debit card for everyday shopping though, but having a google-enabled phone on your person at all times that you constantly interact with is another level of potential for surveillance.

mixmastamyk 3y ago

Price hasn't been the main problem in years. Everyone likely has a cousin or friend with an old smartphone collecting dust in a drawer that could be had practically free. The biggest problems are loss of autonomy, privacy, and redundancy. Whole life dependent on G and A corps? Accounts that can be banned on a whim with no recourse? No thank you. ((extends middle finger))

scarface_74 3y ago
But you’re okay with using a credit card - controlled by Amex, Visa and Mastercard
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Reading comprehension is important and must be developed and tended like a garden.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > The biggest problems are loss of autonomy, privacy, and redundancy. Whole life dependent on G and A corps? Accounts that can be banned on a whim with no recourse? No thank you. ((extends middle finger)) This all applies to credit card companies. Try running a porn site and accepting payments with credit cards
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      I'm not okay with that either. (Although PCI DSS and banking regulations do present a limit to their potential shenanigans.) A secondary in any case, as issues have well-developed remediation strategies. Few regular folks are banned from the financial system without recourse. I get it. You wanted to be edgy and shoot from the hip, but this time pulled the trigger too fast.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        > secondary in any case, as issues have well-developed remediation strategies. Few regular folks are banned from the financial system without recourse. Here is where you are wrong https://finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-keeping-closer-tab-reputation-113200013.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-keeping-closer-tab-repu... Try running a perfectly legal porn website or anything controversial and try getting a merchant account. I had a friend who ran party buses that catered to the LGBT community and had a hard time getting a merchant account while others in her same industry didn’t have a problem.