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Higher Intakes of Potassium and Magnesium, but Not Lower Sodium, Reduce CVD Risk
- electrondood 3y agoThis is in line with what I've heard about sodium in the diet, which is that it's not bad in itself, but in proportion to your potassium intake. I'd guess most Americans are deficient in magnesium and potassium, especially anyone who exercises regularly. If you're a male athlete, your actual magnesium need for example is about 800mg, which is twice the RDA of 400mg, which you're probably also not meeting. I've helped people cure their chronic anxiety by noticing that they ran for an hour most days, and were taking zero supplemental magnesium.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoI thought 300mg supplementation was the max your body could absorb each day. If you do a lot of sport, you should take more than that?
- pc86 3y agoI don't know about magnesium specifically but I know there were experiments with calcium showing that supplementation both a) didn't absorb 100% of whatever you took, and b) had an upper limit for what could be absorbed over N hours. At a certain point you just have to eat food with calcium in it. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find that's true for most/all micronutrients. Supplementation can help, sometimes, but will always be a fraction as impactful as a healthy, well-rounded diet.
- voldacar 3y agoYou can also take vitamin D3 to increase your calcium absorption.
- biomcgary 3y agoIIRC, calcium uptake from the intestines is boosted by the presence of fatty acids. Different types of magnesium supplements have different absorption rates (e.g., magnesium oxide vs magnesium glycinate).
- klodolph 3y agoCalcium and magnesium share some pathways for absorption and compete with each other. Not only is there a limit to how much calcium or magnesium you can absorb, but if you have a high-calcium diet, your body will absorb less magnesium. There are other minerals which have this kind of competition, so supplementing with one mineral can cause problems with absorption of another.
- danaris 3y agoEven to the extent that that may be true, it is going to be an average: different people's bodies will be different in what they can absorb, and the same body at different times will be different. Sometimes dramatically, particularly if you have a deficiency.
- pc86 3y agoWhere do you get 800mg of magnesium from? I just checked my multi-vitamin and it has 0 potassium and only 120mg of magnesium - my guess is to limit how much you end up just pissing out the first few hours after taking it.
- kragen 3y agocoincidentally i spent much of monday investigating the answers to that question supposedly magnesium costs about 25¢/kg as caustic-burned magnesia https://pubs.usgs.gov/myb/vol1/2018/myb1-2018-magnesium-comp.pdf https://pubs.usgs.gov/myb/vol1/2018/myb1-2018-magnesium-comp..., but that includes lots of impurities, probably including lead; you wouldn't want to eat it the cheapest reasonably food-grade source i've found is probably food-grade magnesium chloride for supplements; it's hard to tell how much you're getting because magnesium chloride exists in various hydration states here in argentina it costs 3.6 dollars per kilogram, which works out to somewhere between 11 and 36 dollars per kilogram of magnesium the carbonate, the dead-burned oxide, and the hydroxide are also sold by the kilogram as food supplements; they don't have the hydration problem, and the prices i came up with were respectively - 20 dollars per kg of carbonate and thus 70 dollars per kg of magnesium - 15 dollars per kg of dead-burned food-grade oxide and thus 24 dollars per kg of magnesium - 23 dollars per kg of hydroxide and thus 54 dollars per kg of magnesium other non-food-grade sources i found in my search included galvanic protection anodes for hot-water heaters (35–44 dollars per kg); magnesium sulfate for bath salts, laxative, or fertilizer (17 dollars per kg of magnesium for the fertilizer, 24 for the bath salts); dolomite as fertilizer (20 dollars per kg of magnesium); and magnesium carbonate chalk as exercise equipment (91 dollars per kg of magnesium) (my reason for this search was for formulating carbon-neutral cements, not supplementing my dietary magnesium, so i'd be delighted to find a non-food-grade source that was closer to 24¢ than 24 dollars) 24 dollars per kg of the oxide is 2.4¢ per gram the chloride is highly water-soluble (you have to store it in a hermetically sealed container to prevent deliquescence; i bought a kilogram hermetically sealing jar from the health food store) so it's very easy to add to food. unfortunately it makes the food taste like horse shit, or more precisely like chewing on rubber bands, because those magnesium ions are extremely bitter the oxide and hydroxide are almost perfectly insoluble in water, and the carbonate nearly so, and consequently they will not make your food taste like an accident in a quinine factory. they're just a little chalky. stomach acid converts them to the chloride, which is why mylanta is largely magnesium hydroxide the other thing to keep in mind, aside from disturbing your stomach acid homeostasis, is that magnesium is a laxative. mixing it with food instead of taking it by iteslf helps with this. however, you don't want to mix it with food which is a good source of phosphate, such as coca-cola or high-phytate plants like flaxseed or beans, because the magnesium phosphate thus produced in your stomach has basically zero bioavailability. it doesn't matter if the phytate gets broken down by cooking because what it gets broken down to is phosphate the oxide brand is a local argentine thing called 'natural whey', so you won't be able to find it abroad https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-1165077489-oxido-de-magnesio-grado-usp-999-apto-consumo-1kg-_JM https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-1165077489-oxido-de...
- hinkley 3y agoMost endurance athletes I knew equated bananas with potassium and carbs, but they're not a bad source of magnesium either.
- sound1 3y agoBananas are okay, nothing magical, speaking as a pretty good badminton player. Genetics is a big deal in athletics. You have to supplement whatever your parents didn't pass on to you.
- nobleach 3y agoBananas are a passable source of potassium only when ripe. That quickly converts to sugar in a day or two. By the time light brown spots appear, most potassium is gone. Sunflower seeds and avocados are far better sources.
- philipkglass 3y agoAre you thinking of fiber? Potassium is a metallic element. It can't be turned into sugar.
- nobleach 3y agoI think I am, yeah. The potassium benefit vs sugar content lessens as they ripen. They never actually LOSE the potassium as I stated.
- sound1 3y agoThank you! Probably sodium makes blood heavier and the heart has to work harder to pump it. I've had the same thinking about higher haemoglobin numbers (which I do, i am at too high HB for men) and I do suffer from borderline higher blood pressure since my adolescence (not to mention anxiety). Probably I should start taking more Magnesium to balance the minerals. Read somewhere on the internet that we need to balance the metals in our blood. Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Iron and Calcium lead to a healthy CVS system.
- birriel 3y agoNot medical advice, but for folks looking to supplement with Mg, it's best to avoid Magnesium oxide, as it is very poorly absorbed. Magnesium chloride and Magnesium bisglycinate are much better absorbed.
- arcanemachiner 3y agoThere are charts out there showing the bioavailability of different compounds. As a rule of thumb, the oxide versions of a mineral (e.g. magnesium oxide, zinc oxide) are often the cheapest and least bioavailable versions.
- runnerup 3y agoI’ve had the best luck with magnesium threonate.
- biomcgary 3y agoFurthermore, magnesium levels in soils are typically fairly depleted, so the FDA labeling for fruits and vegetables is often incorrect (having been measured a long time ago).
- darkclouds 3y agoWhat doesnt make sense is the role the kidneys are not playing in a high sodium diet. Sure there is the sodium potassium pump in cells, but what are the kidneys doing as they should be clearing the sodium, maintaining the balance.
- whytai 3y agoIt's certainly true that most people are deficient in potassium. The daily recommended dose for males is over 3 grams per day![1] To make matters worse, the FDA limits the amount of potassium that can be present in supplements to 100mg[2]. So good luck taking 30 supplements to meet your daily requirements! One option Id like to advertise is salt alternatives at grocery stores which are filled with potassium, some with at least 800mg per tsp. This can be another way to supplement potassium and magnesium in the diet [2] [1] https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Potassium-HealthProfessional/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Potassium-HealthProfession... [2] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-i-take-a-potassium-supplement https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-i-take...
- tomcam 3y agoNo one never explains how to get 3000 mg of potassium a day and potassium is usually a very small part of multivitamin supplements. It makes me slightly skeptical of that number.
- kylecazar 3y agoIt's in a surprising amount of foods, people usually think bananas but it's in many fruits/vegetables, chicken, fish, in pretty high quantities
- hinkley 3y agoWhen salt=death was a thing in the 80's and early 90's, one of the 'solutions' was to substitute sodium chloride for potassium chloride. Sounds like we were accidentally fixing the wrong problem.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- carabiner 3y agoWait a few weeks and a study showing the opposite will come out.
- lepus 3y agoThere are plenty of other studies showing a strong correlation between sodium and stroke risk and this study focused on overall CVD risk, so it's still a good idea to avoid high sodium intake.
- epistasis 3y agoAs a non-expert in this field of science, Id caution taking any single study or paper, and perhaps even any single meta-analysis, as an uncertain data point rather than something that determines life decisions. Wading through all the data, how it was interpreted, and what the pitfalls might be, is extremely complex for epidemiology and in fact any human study. Science is a self-correcting process, but for there to be corrections there must be errors first!
- horsawlarway 3y agoAnecdata, so take it for what it's worth... But I have high blood pressure, and I've noticed that magnesium supplementation had a larger impact on my readings (in a good way, lower blood pressure) than anything else I tried, including the actual drugs the DR would prescribe (in my case - ACE inhibitors such as Losartan or Lisinipril). Which is actually pretty astounding, given that the current accepted practice in modern medicine is moving the opposite direction - Diuretics prescribed for high blood pressure often cause low potassium as a side effect (potassium recovery in the kidneys is harmed at the expense of more quickly removing salt/water). And magnesium supplementation is usually warned against (somewhat ironically: because it tends to lower blood pressure even further, and in combination with the drugs can cause problems). --- My take: it's not profitable to solve problems with easily available solutions, and so there is little incentive to fund studying it.
- sound1 3y agoBlood has a few major metals - Iron, Magnesium, Sodium, Potassium, Calcium and Iron. Reduce heavier metals (sodium, iron) in your diet and you should be okay with blood pressure and anxiety. I have a higher than normal blood pressure (and anxiety) since my 20s.
- nobleach 3y agoI really wished this had worked for me. I was right on the line of high blood pressure. I would have good days and bad days. Once the bad days started to outweigh the good, my in-laws suggested a magnesium supplement. I tried that for a few months to no avail. I'd feel much better with a natural solution.
- csours 3y agoDoes Calcium supplementation lead to higher levels of arterial plaque? I ask because I take a combined Magnesium/Calcium supplement.
- agumonkey 3y agoVaguely related, fasting depletes potassium and can make your cardio vascular system really tense and weak.
- BenoitEssiambre 3y agoI can add an anecdotal data point to this. Intermittent fasting only started mildly working for me without making me feel weak and head-achy when I re-added electrolytes in the form of dill pickles, Lipton cup of soup or high enough dose supplements (Gatorade is not enough), especially before sweaty physical activity.
- quangv 3y agohttps://www.healthyfood.com/ask-the-experts/the-sodium-potassium-balancing-act/ https://www.healthyfood.com/ask-the-experts/the-sodium-potas... - i've heard that you need to balance potassium and sodium for ideal health.
- natnatenathan 3y agoI just did some quick research, and here are some common foods that are naturally rich in magnesium. In addition a lot of cereals like shredded wheat, oatmeal, bread also have mg. Looks like some delicious options. There was also a note in the article about that you can't absorb too much Mg through these sources. * Almonds, dry roasted: Serving Size 1 oz, 80 mg * Spinach, boiled: Serving Size ½ cup, 78 mg (does it have to be boiled?) * Cashews, dry roasted: Serving Size 1 oz, 74 mg * Peanuts, oil roasted: Serving Size ¼ cup, 63 mg * Black beans, cooked: Serving Size ½ cup, 60 mg * Edamame, shelled, cooked: Serving Size ½ cup, 50 mg * Dark chocolate -60-69% cacoa: Serving Size 1 oz, 50 mg * Peanut butter, smooth: Serving Size 2 tablespoons, 49 mg * Avocado, cubed: Serving Size 1 cup, 44 mg https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/15650-magnesium-rich-food https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/15650-magnesi...
- modeless 3y agoWow this is timely, I was just researching potassium and magnesium supplements a few days ago. It seems like potassium supplements are useless because they're limited to 100mg by law and the way to go may be potassium based salt substitutes, which you can buy in bulk and take as much as you need. Some people talk about the danger of hyperkalemia but it seems to me like it's actually very difficult to cause that with supplementation unless your kidneys are malfunctioning. What is the best way to supplement without causing digestive issues?
- sauwan 3y agoIf you're an athlete, I'd recommend LMNT. It's easy to make yourself, tastes great, and easy on the stomach. Here's my recipe (all bought in bulk in a very fine powder form - they need to be consistent particle sizes so they mix well) which should be fairly close to LMNT, although a chemist will probably tell me I'm wrong: 20g magnesium malate 20g potassium chloride 142g salt 140g citric acid 15g stevia powder (pure, not mixed with some other sweetener) 20g artificial flavoring powder (not affiliated, but I have used black cherry powder from naturesflavors.com with good success) Mix it up and then put 1 tsp in 20-32oz water. Should last you a long while.
- suggestion 3y agoWhere do you purchase the magnesium and potassium from?
- sauwan 3y agoLate response (not sure how to get notified of replies) but I just grabbed 16oz of each from Amazon.
- maherbeg 3y agoCoconut Water tends to have a good amount of Potassium in it if you're deficient and want something "pre-mixed".