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Any time you come across the tired "billionaires are evil" line, you are likely dealing with some sort of political rhetoric instead of an actual argument/posit

by Alupis 3y ago

Any time you come across the tired "billionaires are evil" line, you are likely dealing with some sort of political rhetoric instead of an actual argument/position. As-if there's any practical difference between a billionaire-owned publication and a millionaire-owned publication within this context. > This is a few rich, mostly billionaire-owned telecom/media companies working as hard as they can to keep out competition. There's many holes in this particular argument, such as non-billionaire owned publications - are they incapable of astroturfing and gatekeeping? Absolutely not, of course. I agree, the link tax idea is bad already - we do not need to add cliché talking points into the mix. As an aside, I personally find it interesting how this mantra started off as "millionaires and billionaires" being evil, until the movement's leader became an overnight millionaire himself. Now, apparently, it's just billionaires that are evil.

tomComb 3y ago
I think the point is that this is being sold by the government as them against big evil (billionaire) tech companies. When in fact it's genesis is the lobbying of local billionaires. So let's discard the billionaire card, and discard the government's equally clique angle: we are against Facebook so we are right and don't look any closer.
- Alupis 3y ago
  Is it not sufficient to be against bad policy, regardless of who may or may not benefit from it?
InitialLastName 3y ago
> As an aside, I personally find it interesting how this mantra started off as "millionaires and billionaires" being evil, until the movement's leader became an overnight millionaire himself. Now, apparently, it's just billionaires that are evil. Not sure who you're referring to, but I think it's more likely that, thanks to inflation and other "growth", a far larger portion of the population have reasonable expectations to be "millionaires" on paper in their lifetimes. Even by now the word covers much of the upper middle class by the end of their career (the median US net worth at end-of-career age is ~$250k [0]). All else held equal the median peak wealth could reasonably cross $1M in the next 40 years, and of course half of the population will be above that. Maybe the more apt word is "oligarch", but the West prefers to deny having those. [10] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm
- Alupis 3y ago
  After a failed Presidential Campaign, Bernie Sanders became a millionaire due to a very lucrative book deal[1]. Overnight, he dropped the millionaire bit from his stump speech, converting what used to be a screed against "Millionaires and Billionaires" to just "Billionaires"[2]. His base didn't seem to notice, and slid right into the modified "billionaires are evil" mantra. The hypocrisy is amazing to see. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/04/12/how-bernie-sanders-the-socialist-senator-amassed-a-25-million-fortune/?sh=5df4832e36bf https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/04/12/how-ber... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/bernie-sanders-says-millionaires-less-in-2020-democratic-primary.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/bernie-sanders-says-milliona...
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    If you think Bernie Sanders was the leader of the "rich people are probably bad for our society" movement, I have a manifesto you should read.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      The resurgence of this screed as a political movement was a creation owed to Bernie Sanders, without any doubt. He made is fashionable. At the time, the "millionaires and billionaires" thing went global, and subsequently, when he dropped billionaires from his screed, so did the rest of the world. So much of global political trends follow the US. See the various Trumpesque figures that popped up seemingly in every country, and note that despite the country of origin, you will only hear about evil billionaires these days.
      - kooooooool 3y ago
        [dead]
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    While the formal definition of a millionaire or billionaire is based on net worth and assets, I think the issue is likely "philosophical" billionaires. It's a fundamentally different lifestyle, culture, and philosophy. We can tell the difference between "Inherited Grandpa's house in Los Angeles, net worth $1.4M, hobbies include PC gaming and woodworking" from "Owns the lion's share of a mining conglomerate, net worth $680M, hobbies include holding Congress hostage to preserve his future revenue streams."
version_five 3y ago
Canada's billionaires are akin to Russia's oligarchs, they're leveraging personal connections with the elite to have effectively taxation power on the population. Whether you like American style billionaires, the Canafian ones are not the same thing, more like kleptocrats which is why they've got the government pushing for this tax.

by Alupis 3y ago

tomComb 3y ago

I think the point is that this is being sold by the government as them against big evil (billionaire) tech companies. When in fact it's genesis is the lobbying of local billionaires. So let's discard the billionaire card, and discard the government's equally clique angle: we are against Facebook so we are right and don't look any closer.

Alupis 3y ago
Is it not sufficient to be against bad policy, regardless of who may or may not benefit from it?

InitialLastName 3y ago

> As an aside, I personally find it interesting how this mantra started off as "millionaires and billionaires" being evil, until the movement's leader became an overnight millionaire himself. Now, apparently, it's just billionaires that are evil. Not sure who you're referring to, but I think it's more likely that, thanks to inflation and other "growth", a far larger portion of the population have reasonable expectations to be "millionaires" on paper in their lifetimes. Even by now the word covers much of the upper middle class by the end of their career (the median US net worth at end-of-career age is ~$250k [0]). All else held equal the median peak wealth could reasonably cross $1M in the next 40 years, and of course half of the population will be above that. Maybe the more apt word is "oligarch", but the West prefers to deny having those. [10] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm

Alupis 3y ago
After a failed Presidential Campaign, Bernie Sanders became a millionaire due to a very lucrative book deal[1]. Overnight, he dropped the millionaire bit from his stump speech, converting what used to be a screed against "Millionaires and Billionaires" to just "Billionaires"[2]. His base didn't seem to notice, and slid right into the modified "billionaires are evil" mantra. The hypocrisy is amazing to see. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/04/12/how-bernie-sanders-the-socialist-senator-amassed-a-25-million-fortune/?sh=5df4832e36bf https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/04/12/how-ber... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/bernie-sanders-says-millionaires-less-in-2020-democratic-primary.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/bernie-sanders-says-milliona...
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  If you think Bernie Sanders was the leader of the "rich people are probably bad for our society" movement, I have a manifesto you should read.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    The resurgence of this screed as a political movement was a creation owed to Bernie Sanders, without any doubt. He made is fashionable. At the time, the "millionaires and billionaires" thing went global, and subsequently, when he dropped billionaires from his screed, so did the rest of the world. So much of global political trends follow the US. See the various Trumpesque figures that popped up seemingly in every country, and note that despite the country of origin, you will only hear about evil billionaires these days.
    - kooooooool 3y ago
      [dead]
- hakfoo 3y ago
  While the formal definition of a millionaire or billionaire is based on net worth and assets, I think the issue is likely "philosophical" billionaires. It's a fundamentally different lifestyle, culture, and philosophy. We can tell the difference between "Inherited Grandpa's house in Los Angeles, net worth $1.4M, hobbies include PC gaming and woodworking" from "Owns the lion's share of a mining conglomerate, net worth $680M, hobbies include holding Congress hostage to preserve his future revenue streams."

version_five 3y ago

Canada's billionaires are akin to Russia's oligarchs, they're leveraging personal connections with the elite to have effectively taxation power on the population. Whether you like American style billionaires, the Canafian ones are not the same thing, more like kleptocrats which is why they've got the government pushing for this tax.