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It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. And for what was sup

by natep 15y ago

It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." And regarding the slippery slope you tried to construct, I don't think there is one, unless you are a moral relativist. Anyone that thinks anyone else is wrong should be able to tell them so (or fire them if it's an at-will situation[1] or part of the contract). If it turns out the majority (or those that are the most vocal) are wrong, then I can only hope that the right opinion will win because of its rightness and/or the persuasiveness of its proponents. Will this situation inevitably lead towards a more moral, ethical society? No. Does it have the potential to categorically exclude/supress correct opinions? No. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

batista 15y ago
It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. Only women are not listed as percs. The PRESENCE of beautiful women serving beer is used as a perc. It's not like you BUY these women or use them as slaves... In other words, not very different from a Hooters. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." I'm unsure about the "clear" though. How much of the potential audience would rather enjoy such an event, but is afraid to say so, because it's not PC?
- victork2 15y ago
  Thank you, your messages are one of a kind compared to the heavy rain of "holier than thou" blog posts on that matter. As a non american(coming from a more egalitarian society, or at least a less objectifying society about women) this is for me a totally ridiculous issue. I'm pretty sure the same people that are being so offended by that small sentence have been in the last months to a Strip Club or a bar with prettier than average waitresses. Some users talk about professional events and that it should not have been like that, go one day to any tech/arm/car/comic con expo and tell me the hostess are not "hot" and chosen because 1) they are women 2) They are good looking. What a non-issue and HN front page was flooded with that today...
  - natep 15y ago
    So, female participation in the tech industry is at or near 50% in your country? No women steer clear of the industry because of sexism (real or perceived)? I would like to know which country this is, so I can find out what you're doing right.
    - danssig 15y ago
      Women steer clear of the tech industry because of the sexism that things like sales don't have, I take it?
- natep 15y ago
  Yes, women as sexy/sexual objects were listed as a perk. No, it's not as bad as slavery, and no one is saying it is. I'm not sponsoring hooters, and I've never been to one. Am I supposed to protest hooters now in order to have a legitimate claim against API Jam in your mind? The message I'm getting from you is that you care more about group A than group B. Group A is all of the poor men that would like to see beautiful women while at API Jam and don't care about how that would make their fellow professionals feel. Group B is all of the women that want to go to a hackathon as professional coders, and not have to worry about people from group A. Will people from group A show up to any event? Yes, but they shouldn't feel that their sexism is welcome. I think group A has enough privilege, and they can do without this one perk for the sake of group B.

by natep 15y ago

batista 15y ago

It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. Only women are not listed as percs. The PRESENCE of beautiful women serving beer is used as a perc. It's not like you BUY these women or use them as slaves... In other words, not very different from a Hooters. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." I'm unsure about the "clear" though. How much of the potential audience would rather enjoy such an event, but is afraid to say so, because it's not PC?

victork2 15y ago
Thank you, your messages are one of a kind compared to the heavy rain of "holier than thou" blog posts on that matter. As a non american(coming from a more egalitarian society, or at least a less objectifying society about women) this is for me a totally ridiculous issue. I'm pretty sure the same people that are being so offended by that small sentence have been in the last months to a Strip Club or a bar with prettier than average waitresses. Some users talk about professional events and that it should not have been like that, go one day to any tech/arm/car/comic con expo and tell me the hostess are not "hot" and chosen because 1) they are women 2) They are good looking. What a non-issue and HN front page was flooded with that today...
- natep 15y ago
  So, female participation in the tech industry is at or near 50% in your country? No women steer clear of the industry because of sexism (real or perceived)? I would like to know which country this is, so I can find out what you're doing right.
  - danssig 15y ago
    Women steer clear of the tech industry because of the sexism that things like sales don't have, I take it?
natep 15y ago
Yes, women as sexy/sexual objects were listed as a perk. No, it's not as bad as slavery, and no one is saying it is. I'm not sponsoring hooters, and I've never been to one. Am I supposed to protest hooters now in order to have a legitimate claim against API Jam in your mind? The message I'm getting from you is that you care more about group A than group B. Group A is all of the poor men that would like to see beautiful women while at API Jam and don't care about how that would make their fellow professionals feel. Group B is all of the women that want to go to a hackathon as professional coders, and not have to worry about people from group A. Will people from group A show up to any event? Yes, but they shouldn't feel that their sexism is welcome. I think group A has enough privilege, and they can do without this one perk for the sake of group B.