4 ms·

Biden was one of the "architects" of modern civil forfeiture: https://fee.org/articles/how-a-young-joe-biden-became-the-architect-of-the-governments-asset-forfe

Biden was one of the "architects" of modern civil forfeiture: https://fee.org/articles/how-a-young-joe-biden-became-the-architect-of-the-governments-asset-forfeiture-program/ https://fee.org/articles/how-a-young-joe-biden-became-the-ar... Voting gets us nowhere with limiting state power. Like falling for a good cop bad cop routine. It provides consent for both sides of the aisle abuse like this. edit: I don't know fee.org. Here's a more neutral reference to widely-known facts: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/bidens-crime-prevention-plan-repeats-old-mistakes-policing-2022-08-02/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/bidens-crime-preven... It's easily researchable.

mikece 3y ago
"Voting doesn't help: it only encourages the bastards!" Too much truth in that, sadly.
ciabattabread 3y ago
So are you advocating for not voting? Exclusively using Tor and ProtonMail? Mass civil disobedience? Overthrow of government? Or becoming a lawyer and filing suit against police departments and other government agencies? Or financially supporting those lawyers?
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Voting is at best a harm reduction tactic. But as I said for limiting state powers specifically, it's usually not even that.
  - bashinator 3y ago
    So what actual actions do you advocate for ordinary citizens to take?
    - membrcovidb 3y ago
      [dead]
    - cmmeur01 3y ago
      Create parallel organizations / structures is about all you can do. Very clear we aren’t voting our way to something better at this point.
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      I don't think OP was trying to advocate any particular action, merely pointing out that a real and serious problem exists at the heart of our democracy. Expecting people who point out a problem to also fix that problem in a single social media comment is a little unrealistic, I think, and generally not something people ask in good faith.
    - paulmd 3y ago
      the classic "aha, if you're really so oppressed, why don't you take productive action about it (in a society where all avenues of productive action have been foreclosed)" to you strategy kinda like asking a black man what he thinks should be done about jim crow, if he's so smart. the tactic really does go way back like yea oppressive power structures systematically foreclose, neuter, and dismantle any means that might be used to counteract or escape their effects, that's why they're oppressive power structures. it’s galaxy-brain stuff to be asking the people inside to just wave a wand and dismantle it all, like I guess you think they could have just done it all along and simply chose not to? and “self-oppression” is of course a very real narrative that is pushed in these situation, it’s really your fault you can’t escape!
      - bashinator 3y ago
        Okay, let me rephrase. What should I be doing other than voting and working for causes I believe in. I’m not in an oppressed group unless you consider the entirety of the American public not part of the oligarchy to be such a group.
        paulmd 3y ago
        Bro really thinks every white person got their own personal "end jim crow button" too and everyone just uniformly refused to press it I guess lol again, commoners of any form (let alone one single commoner working alone) are not going to be able to just do one simple trick and upend an oppressive power structure, it's a better place than being in the fuckbarrel but the point is oppressive power structures don't leave anyone a recourse, if your title doesn't begin with "senator" it doesn't really matter what you think or do. there is of course one option, the last of the boxes. but if you aren't willing to fight for what you believe in then, yeah, you're effectively consenting to the society you are offered by political elites. consent can still be withdrawn, but in an oppressive power structure that's usually going to be a violent process. like I am just telling you outright: soapbox, ballot box, and jury box are all effectively powerless to overturn the problems in american society, by design (that's why it's oppressive). and you can either live with that, and the society thus pressed upon you warts and all, or not. some random march for george floyd or voting blue every election is not going to fix america. keyboard warriorism (including this comment) certainly is not going to do it either. nobody actually walks away from omelas - and omelas news network thinks you're crazy for even suggesting there could be anything better. We all - you and me and every other law-abiding, taxpaying citizen - accept this society knowing that it exists on the back of the largest slave/gulag population on the planet, and an arbitrary and capricious (and usually politicized) "justice" system that could randomly condemn any of us to that slavery and a permanent mark of underclass. We all accept the idea that our attempts at reforms will not do more than trivial and meaningless amounts of good through our lifetimes. And yet we stay and participate. https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf You're not helping. Why is that, Leon? Why do you consent? (I consent to omelas too, I just want you to consciously make your own decision in full knowledge of the consequences and responsibility of your actions. Every day you wake up and go about your life, you do it on the backs of the police state and the carceral state/gulag archipelago it has imposed upon us, and even rattling the bars of your cage a bit by voting or activism will not change this.)
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      it looks like majority of ordinary citizens are fine with situation, otherwise some politicians would play this card already.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Nobody would tell an Iraqi that they can't complain if they don't vote, especially if the only option on the ballot is Saddam. Would they say the same if the only two options were Saddam and Maddas? If the nation's leaders are being elected by a 10-20% voter turnout, it'll be very obvious what's going on. That is the thing that they don't want to happen. Keep voting harder! That'll solve everything!
      - bashinator 3y ago
        “Both sides are equally bad” was particularly effective Russian social media trolling leading into 2016. Glad that bullshit is thoroughly discredited.
cmiller1 3y ago
[flagged]
- criddell 3y ago
  Wikipedia has a slightly different take: > The politics of civil forfeiture were somewhat unusual. The federal forfeiture laws were introduced and pushed through Congress by Republicans in the 1980s, with some Democrats supportive and some critical.
  - jasonlotito 3y ago
    > Wikipedia has a slightly different take: No it doesn't. Biden was one of the co-sponsors. But the main sponsor was a Republican, and a Republican signed it into law. But that's all petty and pointless.
  - adrr 3y ago
    And the dems rolled back "equitable sharing" in 2015. > Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Friday barred local and state police from using federal law to seize cash, cars and other property without warrants or criminal charges. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/holder-ends-seized-asset-sharing-process-that-split-billions-with-local-state-police/2015/01/16/0e7ca058-99d4-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/holder-ends-se...
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - keneda7 3y ago
    I feel like you are purposely misrepresenting what the article the other poster linked said. At least try to have some good faith discussion. You completely leave out any reference to this bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/98th-congress/senate-bill/948 https://www.congress.gov/bill/98th-congress/senate-bill/948.
Clubber 3y ago
>Voting gets us nowhere with limiting state power. You have to make a habit of finding out who the incumbent is and not voting for them. Do this every election and it will get better after a decade or so. You have to scramble the shady alliances by inserting new people every election. It's better than what we've been doing. How do I know this will work? Incumbent politicians were starkly against simply marking who the incumbent was on ballots a decade or two ago the last time it came up.

mikece 3y ago

"Voting doesn't help: it only encourages the bastards!" Too much truth in that, sadly.

ciabattabread 3y ago

So are you advocating for not voting? Exclusively using Tor and ProtonMail? Mass civil disobedience? Overthrow of government? Or becoming a lawyer and filing suit against police departments and other government agencies? Or financially supporting those lawyers?

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Voting is at best a harm reduction tactic. But as I said for limiting state powers specifically, it's usually not even that.
- bashinator 3y ago
  So what actual actions do you advocate for ordinary citizens to take?
  - membrcovidb 3y ago
    [dead]
  - cmmeur01 3y ago
    Create parallel organizations / structures is about all you can do. Very clear we aren’t voting our way to something better at this point.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    I don't think OP was trying to advocate any particular action, merely pointing out that a real and serious problem exists at the heart of our democracy. Expecting people who point out a problem to also fix that problem in a single social media comment is a little unrealistic, I think, and generally not something people ask in good faith.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    the classic "aha, if you're really so oppressed, why don't you take productive action about it (in a society where all avenues of productive action have been foreclosed)" to you strategy kinda like asking a black man what he thinks should be done about jim crow, if he's so smart. the tactic really does go way back like yea oppressive power structures systematically foreclose, neuter, and dismantle any means that might be used to counteract or escape their effects, that's why they're oppressive power structures. it’s galaxy-brain stuff to be asking the people inside to just wave a wand and dismantle it all, like I guess you think they could have just done it all along and simply chose not to? and “self-oppression” is of course a very real narrative that is pushed in these situation, it’s really your fault you can’t escape!
    - bashinator 3y ago
      Okay, let me rephrase. What should I be doing other than voting and working for causes I believe in. I’m not in an oppressed group unless you consider the entirety of the American public not part of the oligarchy to be such a group.
      - paulmd 3y ago
        Bro really thinks every white person got their own personal "end jim crow button" too and everyone just uniformly refused to press it I guess lol again, commoners of any form (let alone one single commoner working alone) are not going to be able to just do one simple trick and upend an oppressive power structure, it's a better place than being in the fuckbarrel but the point is oppressive power structures don't leave anyone a recourse, if your title doesn't begin with "senator" it doesn't really matter what you think or do. there is of course one option, the last of the boxes. but if you aren't willing to fight for what you believe in then, yeah, you're effectively consenting to the society you are offered by political elites. consent can still be withdrawn, but in an oppressive power structure that's usually going to be a violent process. like I am just telling you outright: soapbox, ballot box, and jury box are all effectively powerless to overturn the problems in american society, by design (that's why it's oppressive). and you can either live with that, and the society thus pressed upon you warts and all, or not. some random march for george floyd or voting blue every election is not going to fix america. keyboard warriorism (including this comment) certainly is not going to do it either. nobody actually walks away from omelas - and omelas news network thinks you're crazy for even suggesting there could be anything better. We all - you and me and every other law-abiding, taxpaying citizen - accept this society knowing that it exists on the back of the largest slave/gulag population on the planet, and an arbitrary and capricious (and usually politicized) "justice" system that could randomly condemn any of us to that slavery and a permanent mark of underclass. We all accept the idea that our attempts at reforms will not do more than trivial and meaningless amounts of good through our lifetimes. And yet we stay and participate. https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf You're not helping. Why is that, Leon? Why do you consent? (I consent to omelas too, I just want you to consciously make your own decision in full knowledge of the consequences and responsibility of your actions. Every day you wake up and go about your life, you do it on the backs of the police state and the carceral state/gulag archipelago it has imposed upon us, and even rattling the bars of your cage a bit by voting or activism will not change this.)
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    it looks like majority of ordinary citizens are fine with situation, otherwise some politicians would play this card already.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Nobody would tell an Iraqi that they can't complain if they don't vote, especially if the only option on the ballot is Saddam. Would they say the same if the only two options were Saddam and Maddas? If the nation's leaders are being elected by a 10-20% voter turnout, it'll be very obvious what's going on. That is the thing that they don't want to happen. Keep voting harder! That'll solve everything!
    - bashinator 3y ago
      “Both sides are equally bad” was particularly effective Russian social media trolling leading into 2016. Glad that bullshit is thoroughly discredited.

cmiller1 3y ago

[flagged]

criddell 3y ago
Wikipedia has a slightly different take: > The politics of civil forfeiture were somewhat unusual. The federal forfeiture laws were introduced and pushed through Congress by Republicans in the 1980s, with some Democrats supportive and some critical.
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  > Wikipedia has a slightly different take: No it doesn't. Biden was one of the co-sponsors. But the main sponsor was a Republican, and a Republican signed it into law. But that's all petty and pointless.
- adrr 3y ago
  And the dems rolled back "equitable sharing" in 2015. > Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Friday barred local and state police from using federal law to seize cash, cars and other property without warrants or criminal charges. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/holder-ends-seized-asset-sharing-process-that-split-billions-with-local-state-police/2015/01/16/0e7ca058-99d4-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/holder-ends-se...
jasonlotito 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- keneda7 3y ago
  I feel like you are purposely misrepresenting what the article the other poster linked said. At least try to have some good faith discussion. You completely leave out any reference to this bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/98th-congress/senate-bill/948 https://www.congress.gov/bill/98th-congress/senate-bill/948.

Clubber 3y ago

>Voting gets us nowhere with limiting state power. You have to make a habit of finding out who the incumbent is and not voting for them. Do this every election and it will get better after a decade or so. You have to scramble the shady alliances by inserting new people every election. It's better than what we've been doing. How do I know this will work? Incumbent politicians were starkly against simply marking who the incumbent was on ballots a decade or two ago the last time it came up.