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>What is this American moral universalism? Believing you shouldn't be brutally murdered for criticizing your government is not an American thing. >What the f—

• rayiner 3y ago
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  • mikeyouse 3y ago
    Surely you’re not justifying multi-decade sentences for insults? Or execution for retweets? I don’t think opposing those things falls into the category of “white people” human rights…
    • rayiner 3y ago
      Can I defended it personally? No. But I was raised in Virginia and won’t even concede the federalists were right. However, it’s none of my business how Saudi society is structured. Nobody came from the outside and imposed that monarchy on them. The country is a closely knit collection of families with a vast imported non-citizen workforce. We can’t conceive of how their society works. “Human rights” in general arises from a conception of the worth of the individual relative to the collective that’s distinctly rooted in European culture. And even within that culture it’s a relatively recent development. European countries prosecuted such crimes well into the late 1800s, although usually not with the death penalty. (But Islam is also much more accepting of the death penalty.)
      • mthoms 3y ago
        You acknowledge that the practice is morally indefensible but at the same time you're actively trying to convince others they shouldn't care. What a truly baffling (and concerning) serious of comments.
        • rayiner 3y ago
          I’m acknowledging that it’s not defensible within the particular framework of moral judgments that I learned in a southern U.S. state that’s especially skeptical of government power. But I’m trying to convince others that they shouldn’t try to apply the moral precepts and priorities of their society to the domestic affairs of a foreign society with a very different moral framework. It’s not like Saudis are coming to Virginia and insisting that we also execute people critical of the Saudi monarchy. Saudi nationals aren’t voting in our elections and bringing their moral framework to our country. They can run their country how they want. And moral universalism has a long history of resulting in impingement of the sovereignty of foreign nations. What’s concerning is your apparent belief that everything is your business.
          • mikeyouse 3y ago
            They actually do do that.. and lure dissidents to embassies where they torture, murder and dismember people who are critical of the government. Moral relativism is a bankrupt ideology. Some things are objectively wrong, and pretending like you shouldn’t point it out because you were born in a different longitude is just so sad.
            • rayiner 3y ago
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          • mthoms 3y ago
            > moral universalism has a long history of resulting in impingement of the sovereignty of foreign nations For the last time: We were talking about what an individual can peacefully do in order to effect change (if anything). No one has made any suggestions about what the United States as a nation should do. The comment you replied to was explicitly NOT geopolitical in scope. It was the polar opposite; They were asking what a single individual can do about something they personally find morally repugnant. No one is suggesting violating the “sovereignty of foreign nations”. That’s absurd. >What’s concerning is your apparent belief that everything is your business Your strawman game is really off the charts.