4 ms·

So one is only allowed to have the "right" opinions? I think it's pretty obvious that everyone should try to have correct ideas. For example, if you think tha

by samth 15y ago

So one is only allowed to have the "right" opinions? I think it's pretty obvious that everyone should try to have correct ideas. For example, if you think that Mac OS X is the world's most widely-used desktop OS, then you are wrong, and you should revise your thinking on the subject. Similarly, if you think that IP guarantees reliable delivery, you should think something else, because you're not right. Thinking that it's ok to make people slaves because of the color of their skin (or any other reason) is also wrong, and if you think that (I assume no one on HN does), you should revise your thinking on the subject. Saying, at work, that you think your coworkers should be made into slaves seems like a pretty obvious firing offense to me. As for whether an event can be both legal and a bad thing, I think it's pretty obvious that something can -- imagine I organized an event to write patches with backdoors for the linux kernel. If you said you were going to organize an event like that, I would say that you shouldn't do it.

batista 15y ago
> I think it's pretty obvious that everyone should try to have correct ideas. For example, if you think that Mac OS X is the world's most widely-used desktop OS, then you are wrong, and you should revise your thinking on the subject. Similarly, if you think that IP guarantees reliable delivery, you should think something else, because you're not right. That about factual correctness. Another ballgame altogether. Whether a hackathon should have female waitresses or not is an ethical/moral issue. In any case, not something that can be objectively counted and checked.
- natep 15y ago
  It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." And regarding the slippery slope you tried to construct, I don't think there is one, unless you are a moral relativist. Anyone that thinks anyone else is wrong should be able to tell them so (or fire them if it's an at-will situation[1] or part of the contract). If it turns out the majority (or those that are the most vocal) are wrong, then I can only hope that the right opinion will win because of its rightness and/or the persuasiveness of its proponents. Will this situation inevitably lead towards a more moral, ethical society? No. Does it have the potential to categorically exclude/supress correct opinions? No. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
  - batista 15y ago
    It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. Only women are not listed as percs. The PRESENCE of beautiful women serving beer is used as a perc. It's not like you BUY these women or use them as slaves... In other words, not very different from a Hooters. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." I'm unsure about the "clear" though. How much of the potential audience would rather enjoy such an event, but is afraid to say so, because it's not PC?
    - victork2 15y ago
      Thank you, your messages are one of a kind compared to the heavy rain of "holier than thou" blog posts on that matter. As a non american(coming from a more egalitarian society, or at least a less objectifying society about women) this is for me a totally ridiculous issue. I'm pretty sure the same people that are being so offended by that small sentence have been in the last months to a Strip Club or a bar with prettier than average waitresses. Some users talk about professional events and that it should not have been like that, go one day to any tech/arm/car/comic con expo and tell me the hostess are not "hot" and chosen because 1) they are women 2) They are good looking. What a non-issue and HN front page was flooded with that today...
      - natep 15y ago
        So, female participation in the tech industry is at or near 50% in your country? No women steer clear of the industry because of sexism (real or perceived)? I would like to know which country this is, so I can find out what you're doing right.
        danssig 15y ago
        Women steer clear of the tech industry because of the sexism that things like sales don't have, I take it?
    - 15y ago
- samth 15y ago
  Thinking that women are appropriate as "perks" is way more wrong than thinking that IP is reliable

by samth 15y ago

batista 15y ago

> I think it's pretty obvious that everyone should try to have correct ideas. For example, if you think that Mac OS X is the world's most widely-used desktop OS, then you are wrong, and you should revise your thinking on the subject. Similarly, if you think that IP guarantees reliable delivery, you should think something else, because you're not right. That about factual correctness. Another ballgame altogether. Whether a hackathon should have female waitresses or not is an ethical/moral issue. In any case, not something that can be objectively counted and checked.

natep 15y ago
It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." And regarding the slippery slope you tried to construct, I don't think there is one, unless you are a moral relativist. Anyone that thinks anyone else is wrong should be able to tell them so (or fire them if it's an at-will situation[1] or part of the contract). If it turns out the majority (or those that are the most vocal) are wrong, then I can only hope that the right opinion will win because of its rightness and/or the persuasiveness of its proponents. Will this situation inevitably lead towards a more moral, ethical society? No. Does it have the potential to categorically exclude/supress correct opinions? No. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
- batista 15y ago
  It's not about whether hackathons should have female waitresses. It's about whether "women" should be listed as perks right under massages. Only women are not listed as percs. The PRESENCE of beautiful women serving beer is used as a perc. It's not like you BUY these women or use them as slaves... In other words, not very different from a Hooters. And for what was supposed to be a professional event (in the eyes of its sponsors and potential audience at least), the answer is a clear "No." I'm unsure about the "clear" though. How much of the potential audience would rather enjoy such an event, but is afraid to say so, because it's not PC?
  - victork2 15y ago
    Thank you, your messages are one of a kind compared to the heavy rain of "holier than thou" blog posts on that matter. As a non american(coming from a more egalitarian society, or at least a less objectifying society about women) this is for me a totally ridiculous issue. I'm pretty sure the same people that are being so offended by that small sentence have been in the last months to a Strip Club or a bar with prettier than average waitresses. Some users talk about professional events and that it should not have been like that, go one day to any tech/arm/car/comic con expo and tell me the hostess are not "hot" and chosen because 1) they are women 2) They are good looking. What a non-issue and HN front page was flooded with that today...
    - natep 15y ago
      So, female participation in the tech industry is at or near 50% in your country? No women steer clear of the industry because of sexism (real or perceived)? I would like to know which country this is, so I can find out what you're doing right.
      - danssig 15y ago
        Women steer clear of the tech industry because of the sexism that things like sales don't have, I take it?
  - 15y ago
samth 15y ago
Thinking that women are appropriate as "perks" is way more wrong than thinking that IP is reliable