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[Random parenting advice from the internet] My child is grown but grew up during the iPhone era. Anyway, I had a policy. It lasted until middle school. Then

[Random parenting advice from the internet] My child is grown but grew up during the iPhone era. Anyway, I had a policy. It lasted until middle school. Then we had a conversation. And worked things out together. That's my recommendation because in the long run, conversation and negotiation are the only tools you really have. Good luck. ---- Appendix: 1. FOSS is your value. Your child is not you. If your child thinks FOSS is cool, it's cool. If they think it is lame, you are being lame. 2. Parental controls are only as good as someone else's parents. Your child can look at naked people on someone else's phone. 3. Around middle school, your child's peers begin to have massive importance. It is not that you cease to be important. But you are going to have to share influence. Even if you try to forbid such sharing. 4. It is better if parents grow as their children grow. Growing is on you because you are the adult.

eitally 3y ago
This cannot be upvoted enough - thanks for posting it!
zamalek 3y ago
> Your child is not you. If your child thinks FOSS is cool, it's cool. If they think it is lame, you are being lame. Yup, don't turn them into a pariah due to the color of chat bubbles (not having iPhone-colored bubbles was recently a major social problem for American teenagers). The color of a bubble might seem stupid to someone dealing with the issues of the adult world, but social issues is basically/hopefully the extent of problems that kids face. That being said, parents have been successfully imparting values to their children for millennia. If you believe that using FOSS is important (I happen to agree) then you should have no issues convincing your child the same. Maybe they'll end up using Linux on their laptop, while prioritizing the color of chat bubbles on their phones. You can only give them the tools and knowledge to make the right choices, you can't make choices for them.
- jamilton 3y ago
  I don't know if I would say it's a "major social problem", more like a mild negative. Some teenagers primarily use Snapchat, Instagram, or Facebook Messenger. And outside of the US Whatsapp is very common. All these get around the chat bubble color issue.
- rcbdev 3y ago
  I couldn't find anything on this online. Why would you need to change the theme of a chat application as a kid in the United States? Sorry if I am missing something painfully obvious here.
  - sumeno 3y ago
    On iPhones iMessages are blue, but text messages (from non-ios devices) are green and lack some of the features of iMessages, so being green is looked down upon
  - awelxtr 3y ago
    Have a read: https://archive.ph/RJ7bl https://archive.ph/RJ7bl it is an article of the wall street journal from last year that explains this pretty well
intrasight 3y ago
Not screentime but on a similar thread. My daughter was born in '96 so screentime wasn't an issue when she was young. My story is about alcohol. When my daughter was about 12, I decided to stop drinking. Not that I was a big drinker or anything - I probably had one or two beers a week. But I decided to demonstrate that social drinking - or any drinking - was something that people can choose to abstain from without any downsides. I started to drink beer again some time when she was in high school. My daughter did get a feature-phone in middle school and then a smartphone in high school. I never set any limits - but I was fortunate to have a child who managed her time exceptionally well. I wonder how much of that came from her not having smartphone exposure when young. I do feel for parents today.
- hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
  As someone born in '87, I have no idea what you mean by "screentime wasn't an issue". I think it's more the case that it wasn't an issue for your daughter. I had plenty of fights with my parents about the amount of time I wanted to spend on my computer.
  - seanthemon 3y ago
    Agreed, I was born in the 90s and I spent 90% of my time glued to my pc, tv, psp, gameboy, nokia...
  - Zetice 3y ago
    I was born around when you were and screen time never came up, the more time I spent on my computer the better, honestly. I had many problems, but generic “screen time” was never one of them.
    - hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
      I guess technically true, since the only screens we had back then were the computer and TV, and I didn't give a damn about the latter.
  - debaserab2 3y ago
tstrimple 3y ago
> And worked things out together. So much this. Kids are living, breathing, thinking human beings. They are immature yes. But that doesn't remove the value of their opinions or their agency. And it's not to say you give them everything they want, but that you find common ground and aren't seen as dictating things without reason. If you can explain your point of view in terms they understand, compliance is far more likely. For the most part, my kids have unlimited access to electronics and the internet. Yeah, sometimes they watch stupid TikTok videos or silly toy reviews on Youtube. Other times they are learning how to code or learning how to knit or how to make slime from common household materials, etc. Last week I baked bread with my daughter because she found a recipe on TikTok she wanted to try out. They sometimes watch content I don't like or agree with, but often that's resolved just by talking about why I don't think it's good content or sending a good message. I've talked to both of my daughters about why I don't like SSSniperWolf content as an example. Usually this works out fine, but none of the things they watch are so egregious I feel like I need to cut them off. And who am I to judge the occasional mindless entertainment when I've always done the same and I can readily see it's a small portion of the content they are consuming? When I hear folks talking about zero access and no smart devices until X years, I have to ask myself where the trust and relationship exists between these parents and their children. I just can't imagine not having enough of a relationship with my kids to not have a good understanding of what they are up to online and how they are perceiving it. I can't imagine not being able to trust the values that I've instilled in my children and having to cut them off from the world to hide that neglect. Further, I feel these sort of blanket bans put kids into a position where they feel they need to hide what they do from their parents online which is the absolute opposite of what they should be thinking. That said, we do have restrictions. No electronics during dinner or shared entertainment sort of things. People scrolling social media during movie time is a pet peeve of mine. The electronic devices are not an escape from small talk during boring family dinners or the slow part of the show we're watching.
- kqr 3y ago
  How do you know your children are not hiding the parts of their online activity they think you would disagree more strongly with? Genuinely curious.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gpt5 3y ago
To add to that: 1. Technology and screen time aren't the problems; it's the lack of passion and interests that is the root problem. Cultivate passion in your child and expose them to new things. You'll immediately notice a positive change in how they use their screen time to pursue these interests. When they watch gaming videos or unboxing on youtube they do that because that's their current passion. 2. Your control over your children diminishes over time. Build trust early on and allow them to make mistakes; these are invaluable teaching tools. It's better to teach them good habits concerning technology while you still have influence, rather than later when your control is limited. 3. There are real costs associated with not allowing your child largely unrestricted access to technology. These costs include social drawbacks, a significantly reduced ability for them to explore their passions independently, and long-term tension between the child and the parents due to a lack of trust.
- zbyforgotp 3y ago
  Our minds need times of boredom to be creative. Especially children who learn at fast pace. I have seen it multiple times that children without immediate stimulation start solving problems.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Technology and screen time aren't the problems; it's the lack of passion and interests that is the root problem. Hard disagree. Many passions and interests take time to develop, and a big way they (used to, at least) develop naturally is through boredom. I remember well when I was a kid in the 80s who would get bored with my friends in the summer, and so we'd go and build forts or explore (illegally I guess) houses that were still under construction. A lot has been written about "the death of boredom" because smartphones are always there to give you that little dopamine fix to keep boredom at bay. I agree with the general thrust of your post (technology is pretty unavoidable, and I've never seen a case where parents have been successful "hiding their kids from the real world" past a certain age), but I do think technology has had a severe negative impact on the mental development of youths since the advent of the smartphone, similar to how modern diets have had a severe negative impact to the development of their bodies.
rhn_mk1 3y ago
While I agree that your child is not you and FOSS doesn't need to be your child's value, it needs to be said that FOSS is the software author's value. It correlates with the author's intentions, their incentive and the software's shape and influence on the user – your child. It's a way to delineate content you want your child to see and that which you don't (and thus we circle back to the idea that you imposing a policy ultimately means imposing your values anyway).
agnivade 3y ago
> Then we had a conversation. > And worked things out together. You make it sound so simple. What if your kid simply doesn't listen? They are smart, so they know that if they keep nagging, they will eventually get what they want.
- foozed 3y ago
  i don't think gp necessarily meant that everything always worked out well and that there never were disagreements. I might be very wrong but what i took away from it was that no matter how much of a plan / how strong a policy you make, you're going to need to make some compromises unless you want to become the sort of parents we had (generalizing greatly).
foozed 3y ago
I'm still a ways off from needing this specific advice (child is 2 ½), but i feel like the that is exactly how i wish i had been treated as a kid. Not what i wanted back then, which was obviously to just do everything i wanted to do, but what, looking back, i believe would've been great. Thank you.

eitally 3y ago

This cannot be upvoted enough - thanks for posting it!

zamalek 3y ago

> Your child is not you. If your child thinks FOSS is cool, it's cool. If they think it is lame, you are being lame. Yup, don't turn them into a pariah due to the color of chat bubbles (not having iPhone-colored bubbles was recently a major social problem for American teenagers). The color of a bubble might seem stupid to someone dealing with the issues of the adult world, but social issues is basically/hopefully the extent of problems that kids face. That being said, parents have been successfully imparting values to their children for millennia. If you believe that using FOSS is important (I happen to agree) then you should have no issues convincing your child the same. Maybe they'll end up using Linux on their laptop, while prioritizing the color of chat bubbles on their phones. You can only give them the tools and knowledge to make the right choices, you can't make choices for them.

jamilton 3y ago
I don't know if I would say it's a "major social problem", more like a mild negative. Some teenagers primarily use Snapchat, Instagram, or Facebook Messenger. And outside of the US Whatsapp is very common. All these get around the chat bubble color issue.
rcbdev 3y ago
I couldn't find anything on this online. Why would you need to change the theme of a chat application as a kid in the United States? Sorry if I am missing something painfully obvious here.
- sumeno 3y ago
  On iPhones iMessages are blue, but text messages (from non-ios devices) are green and lack some of the features of iMessages, so being green is looked down upon
- awelxtr 3y ago
  Have a read: https://archive.ph/RJ7bl https://archive.ph/RJ7bl it is an article of the wall street journal from last year that explains this pretty well

intrasight 3y ago

Not screentime but on a similar thread. My daughter was born in '96 so screentime wasn't an issue when she was young. My story is about alcohol. When my daughter was about 12, I decided to stop drinking. Not that I was a big drinker or anything - I probably had one or two beers a week. But I decided to demonstrate that social drinking - or any drinking - was something that people can choose to abstain from without any downsides. I started to drink beer again some time when she was in high school. My daughter did get a feature-phone in middle school and then a smartphone in high school. I never set any limits - but I was fortunate to have a child who managed her time exceptionally well. I wonder how much of that came from her not having smartphone exposure when young. I do feel for parents today.

hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
As someone born in '87, I have no idea what you mean by "screentime wasn't an issue". I think it's more the case that it wasn't an issue for your daughter. I had plenty of fights with my parents about the amount of time I wanted to spend on my computer.
- seanthemon 3y ago
  Agreed, I was born in the 90s and I spent 90% of my time glued to my pc, tv, psp, gameboy, nokia...
- Zetice 3y ago
  I was born around when you were and screen time never came up, the more time I spent on my computer the better, honestly. I had many problems, but generic “screen time” was never one of them.
  - hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
    I guess technically true, since the only screens we had back then were the computer and TV, and I didn't give a damn about the latter.
- debaserab2 3y ago

tstrimple 3y ago

> And worked things out together. So much this. Kids are living, breathing, thinking human beings. They are immature yes. But that doesn't remove the value of their opinions or their agency. And it's not to say you give them everything they want, but that you find common ground and aren't seen as dictating things without reason. If you can explain your point of view in terms they understand, compliance is far more likely. For the most part, my kids have unlimited access to electronics and the internet. Yeah, sometimes they watch stupid TikTok videos or silly toy reviews on Youtube. Other times they are learning how to code or learning how to knit or how to make slime from common household materials, etc. Last week I baked bread with my daughter because she found a recipe on TikTok she wanted to try out. They sometimes watch content I don't like or agree with, but often that's resolved just by talking about why I don't think it's good content or sending a good message. I've talked to both of my daughters about why I don't like SSSniperWolf content as an example. Usually this works out fine, but none of the things they watch are so egregious I feel like I need to cut them off. And who am I to judge the occasional mindless entertainment when I've always done the same and I can readily see it's a small portion of the content they are consuming? When I hear folks talking about zero access and no smart devices until X years, I have to ask myself where the trust and relationship exists between these parents and their children. I just can't imagine not having enough of a relationship with my kids to not have a good understanding of what they are up to online and how they are perceiving it. I can't imagine not being able to trust the values that I've instilled in my children and having to cut them off from the world to hide that neglect. Further, I feel these sort of blanket bans put kids into a position where they feel they need to hide what they do from their parents online which is the absolute opposite of what they should be thinking. That said, we do have restrictions. No electronics during dinner or shared entertainment sort of things. People scrolling social media during movie time is a pet peeve of mine. The electronic devices are not an escape from small talk during boring family dinners or the slow part of the show we're watching.

kqr 3y ago
How do you know your children are not hiding the parts of their online activity they think you would disagree more strongly with? Genuinely curious.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gpt5 3y ago

To add to that: 1. Technology and screen time aren't the problems; it's the lack of passion and interests that is the root problem. Cultivate passion in your child and expose them to new things. You'll immediately notice a positive change in how they use their screen time to pursue these interests. When they watch gaming videos or unboxing on youtube they do that because that's their current passion. 2. Your control over your children diminishes over time. Build trust early on and allow them to make mistakes; these are invaluable teaching tools. It's better to teach them good habits concerning technology while you still have influence, rather than later when your control is limited. 3. There are real costs associated with not allowing your child largely unrestricted access to technology. These costs include social drawbacks, a significantly reduced ability for them to explore their passions independently, and long-term tension between the child and the parents due to a lack of trust.

zbyforgotp 3y ago
Our minds need times of boredom to be creative. Especially children who learn at fast pace. I have seen it multiple times that children without immediate stimulation start solving problems.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Technology and screen time aren't the problems; it's the lack of passion and interests that is the root problem. Hard disagree. Many passions and interests take time to develop, and a big way they (used to, at least) develop naturally is through boredom. I remember well when I was a kid in the 80s who would get bored with my friends in the summer, and so we'd go and build forts or explore (illegally I guess) houses that were still under construction. A lot has been written about "the death of boredom" because smartphones are always there to give you that little dopamine fix to keep boredom at bay. I agree with the general thrust of your post (technology is pretty unavoidable, and I've never seen a case where parents have been successful "hiding their kids from the real world" past a certain age), but I do think technology has had a severe negative impact on the mental development of youths since the advent of the smartphone, similar to how modern diets have had a severe negative impact to the development of their bodies.

rhn_mk1 3y ago

While I agree that your child is not you and FOSS doesn't need to be your child's value, it needs to be said that FOSS is the software author's value. It correlates with the author's intentions, their incentive and the software's shape and influence on the user – your child. It's a way to delineate content you want your child to see and that which you don't (and thus we circle back to the idea that you imposing a policy ultimately means imposing your values anyway).

agnivade 3y ago

> Then we had a conversation. > And worked things out together. You make it sound so simple. What if your kid simply doesn't listen? They are smart, so they know that if they keep nagging, they will eventually get what they want.

foozed 3y ago
i don't think gp necessarily meant that everything always worked out well and that there never were disagreements. I might be very wrong but what i took away from it was that no matter how much of a plan / how strong a policy you make, you're going to need to make some compromises unless you want to become the sort of parents we had (generalizing greatly).

foozed 3y ago

I'm still a ways off from needing this specific advice (child is 2 ½), but i feel like the that is exactly how i wish i had been treated as a kid. Not what i wanted back then, which was obviously to just do everything i wanted to do, but what, looking back, i believe would've been great. Thank you.