5 ms·

Asus details its cable-free GC-HPWR connector for 600W gaming GPUs

30 points by voxadam 3y ago

ch_123 3y ago
Reminds me somewhat of the old VLB card interface, although this one is for power delivery reasons as opposed to bandwidth.
- consp 3y ago
  Those were a pita to install and I always wondered if it would harm the motherboard by pressing too hard. Hopefully this is not that bad.
pxx 3y ago
At this rate, why don't graphics cards just have external power supplies? They're the largest power consumers by far and this would mean you could expand GPUs without having to resize the system power supply. This also means you can deal with whatever bespoke voltages you want for the power delivery you need, as opposed to being constrained by standards for the system.
- voxadam 3y ago
  If I remember correctly the Voodoo 5 from 3dfx was powered by an external wall wart.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > At this rate, why don't graphics cards just have external power supplies? Been there, done that: https://www.eurogamer.net/p-v56000 https://www.eurogamer.net/p-v56000
- oakwhiz 3y ago
  PC power supplies can be in the 2200W range already. What's wrong with that? The external power you're talking about would be like 1 volt at hundreds of amps. What's the point of that? The connector and cable would be huge, think copper feeders. The existing set up where a higher voltage (12v) is stepped down to all dynamic target voltages (Vcore, memory etc) is fine and there isn't anything wrong with that. No need to reinvent the wheel. I don't want 1 external power supply per graphics card, what is the point of a modular internal power supply then?
  - solardev 3y ago
    On the other hand, I wish eGPUs were more popular/standard. Having a separate enclosure is nice when the GPU is the main outlier to a modern system. The rest of the PC can run off, what, 200 watts, and fit on a nano motherboard with basic cooling? Then comes the big ass space heater GPU that draws most of the power and disrupts airflow for everything else. Why not have it in its own little cage, almost like a game console? It can get better cooling that way, its own power supply that maximizes output instead of efficiency, and easy upgrades. Connect it when you wanna game or do AI stuff, leave it completely off the rest of the time. If it had its own little web enabled controller, maybe you could even rent it out for processing workloads in the clouds.
    - GordonS 3y ago
      What's the current state of eGPUs these days? I had a quick look, and wow, there aren't many eGPU enclosures going about, and what there are, are expensive. I always saw them as intended for laptops rather than desktops - are there any downsides or performance penalties compared to slotting directly into a PCIe slot?
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > are there any downsides or performance penalties compared to slotting directly into a PCIe slot? Latency, for one. All signals must at least pass through two Thunderbolt/USB4 chipsets on their way to and from the GPU, and at least for anything but high profile AMD CPUs Thunderbolt is connected to the southbridge instead of northbridge (where the x16 GPU slot is).
        solardev 3y ago
        Are there none that still use pcie, just through a cable instead of a slot? That's too bad, if so :(
        mschuster91 3y ago
- p1esk 3y ago
  A system power supply costs a small fraction of a modern 600W GPU. I’d rather have the ability to install additional power supplies into my workstation.
- capableweb 3y ago
  You could do this today already, just need to be able to fit it in the chassi. You can power the GPU with a different power supply than the one supplying the rest of the system. Cryptocurrency mining setups does this frequently, so there is lots of prior art around for doing just that.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > At this rate, why don't graphics cards just have external power supplies? Allow me to introduce you to the 2005 era "ASUS Extreme N7800GT Dual" [1] Power is supplied to the board via an external PSU, rated to provide 80W of output power from 12V DC. You can power the board from your PSU, provided it's ATX2.0 and has a suitably meaty current ability [...] obviously the external PSU is the recommended method of keeping the board fed with the power it needs. (The product actually combined two GPUs, linked with SLI, on a single board. With the absurd price of over £600 the press considered it a very very expensive boutique piece of hardware. [1] https://www.hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/3654-asus-extreme-n7800gt-dual/ https://www.hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/3654-asus-extrem...
  - rasz 3y ago
    Forget 2005, in 2000 3dfx already planned external supply for its up and never coming V5 6000 http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/v5-6000/v56kgb-6.htm http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/v5-6000/v56kgb-6.h...
oakwhiz 3y ago
This is really annoying if the connector collides with components on an incompatible motherboard. You basically need a riser and a 90 degree "cheater" cable to get one of these cards working on a normal motherboard. That said, conflicts with the location of the cable connector on certain GPUs and certain chassis can be annoying, but in my view that does not present as big of a problem.
myself248 3y ago
Okay but doesn't the power still have to get INTO the motherboard with a cable and connector from the PSU? This just moves the problem and adds another layer.
- Retric 3y ago
  I think they’re aiming for cable management not the lack of connectors. A power connector to a GPU is harder to manage airflow around than that same cable running to the edge of a motherboard next to the power supply.
  - cesarb 3y ago
    I have the suspicion that they're more concerned with aesthetics than with airflow. Transparent PC cases are a plague.
  - lacksconfidence 3y ago
    I was optimistic they were trying to resolve the issue with melting connectors by using a better method, but I think you might be right and this is unrelated.
specker 3y ago
Practically speaking, low-end mobos could just have an empty hole through the PCB for a power cable to go to the GPU from the power supply instead of soldering the connection and running all that power through the mobo. That power circuitry can't be easy to have around the chipset, right? Also, with this connector being so far away from the mounting brace to the case, would GPU sagging torque/bend/ this connector and all 600w of power going to it? A 600w GPU would have a big 'ol cooler and have big sag, right?
- p1esk 3y ago
  What are you talking about? GPU cards are already powered directly from the power supply. PCIe can only supply up to 75W.
dagmx 3y ago
I’m a huge fan of this kind of setup and I hope it becomes the norm across other manufacturers as well. The last Intel Mac Pro had an extremely similar power delivery method, and it really makes for a very clean look + simplifies things ever so slightly when replacing cards. I’m sure people will say that neither of those things are worth it for the change involved, but I’m still hopeful that this becomes part of the ATX standard going forward
cmovq 3y ago
It’s a shame this will make graphics cards using this connector incompatible with mini ITX.
- whoopdedo 3y ago
  The lengths of these cards already requires at least a miniATX if not a full ATX. For SSF you'd be using a riser cable anyway. Just means you'll have a riser with data and power together which is even better since it eliminates the PSU-to-GPU cable and requires less space above the GPU wherever you mount it.
aidenn0 3y ago
I've always had a dream that someone would maintain a list of GPUs that can be powered off of the PCIe bus. Not just one less cable to deal with, but I actually know the peak power draw won't be over 75W instead of whatever BS number they use for power rating.
- oakwhiz 3y ago
  Or some kind of mode on the GPU that reduces performance slightly to stay within the slot-only power limit. Cards already do power limiting, I wonder how easy this would be.

30 points by voxadam 3y ago

Reminds me somewhat of the old VLB card interface, although this one is for power delivery reasons as opposed to bandwidth.

consp 3y ago
Those were a pita to install and I always wondered if it would harm the motherboard by pressing too hard. Hopefully this is not that bad.

pxx 3y ago

At this rate, why don't graphics cards just have external power supplies? They're the largest power consumers by far and this would mean you could expand GPUs without having to resize the system power supply. This also means you can deal with whatever bespoke voltages you want for the power delivery you need, as opposed to being constrained by standards for the system.

voxadam 3y ago
If I remember correctly the Voodoo 5 from 3dfx was powered by an external wall wart.
clouddrover 3y ago
> At this rate, why don't graphics cards just have external power supplies? Been there, done that: https://www.eurogamer.net/p-v56000 https://www.eurogamer.net/p-v56000
oakwhiz 3y ago
PC power supplies can be in the 2200W range already. What's wrong with that? The external power you're talking about would be like 1 volt at hundreds of amps. What's the point of that? The connector and cable would be huge, think copper feeders. The existing set up where a higher voltage (12v) is stepped down to all dynamic target voltages (Vcore, memory etc) is fine and there isn't anything wrong with that. No need to reinvent the wheel. I don't want 1 external power supply per graphics card, what is the point of a modular internal power supply then?
- solardev 3y ago
  On the other hand, I wish eGPUs were more popular/standard. Having a separate enclosure is nice when the GPU is the main outlier to a modern system. The rest of the PC can run off, what, 200 watts, and fit on a nano motherboard with basic cooling? Then comes the big ass space heater GPU that draws most of the power and disrupts airflow for everything else. Why not have it in its own little cage, almost like a game console? It can get better cooling that way, its own power supply that maximizes output instead of efficiency, and easy upgrades. Connect it when you wanna game or do AI stuff, leave it completely off the rest of the time. If it had its own little web enabled controller, maybe you could even rent it out for processing workloads in the clouds.
  - GordonS 3y ago
    What's the current state of eGPUs these days? I had a quick look, and wow, there aren't many eGPU enclosures going about, and what there are, are expensive. I always saw them as intended for laptops rather than desktops - are there any downsides or performance penalties compared to slotting directly into a PCIe slot?
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > are there any downsides or performance penalties compared to slotting directly into a PCIe slot? Latency, for one. All signals must at least pass through two Thunderbolt/USB4 chipsets on their way to and from the GPU, and at least for anything but high profile AMD CPUs Thunderbolt is connected to the southbridge instead of northbridge (where the x16 GPU slot is).
      - solardev 3y ago
        Are there none that still use pcie, just through a cable instead of a slot? That's too bad, if so :(
        mschuster91 3y ago
p1esk 3y ago
A system power supply costs a small fraction of a modern 600W GPU. I’d rather have the ability to install additional power supplies into my workstation.
capableweb 3y ago
You could do this today already, just need to be able to fit it in the chassi. You can power the GPU with a different power supply than the one supplying the rest of the system. Cryptocurrency mining setups does this frequently, so there is lots of prior art around for doing just that.
michaelt 3y ago
> At this rate, why don't graphics cards just have external power supplies? Allow me to introduce you to the 2005 era "ASUS Extreme N7800GT Dual" [1] Power is supplied to the board via an external PSU, rated to provide 80W of output power from 12V DC. You can power the board from your PSU, provided it's ATX2.0 and has a suitably meaty current ability [...] obviously the external PSU is the recommended method of keeping the board fed with the power it needs. (The product actually combined two GPUs, linked with SLI, on a single board. With the absurd price of over £600 the press considered it a very very expensive boutique piece of hardware. [1] https://www.hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/3654-asus-extreme-n7800gt-dual/ https://www.hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/3654-asus-extrem...
- rasz 3y ago
  Forget 2005, in 2000 3dfx already planned external supply for its up and never coming V5 6000 http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/v5-6000/v56kgb-6.htm http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/v5-6000/v56kgb-6.h...

oakwhiz 3y ago

This is really annoying if the connector collides with components on an incompatible motherboard. You basically need a riser and a 90 degree "cheater" cable to get one of these cards working on a normal motherboard. That said, conflicts with the location of the cable connector on certain GPUs and certain chassis can be annoying, but in my view that does not present as big of a problem.

myself248 3y ago

Okay but doesn't the power still have to get INTO the motherboard with a cable and connector from the PSU? This just moves the problem and adds another layer.

Retric 3y ago
I think they’re aiming for cable management not the lack of connectors. A power connector to a GPU is harder to manage airflow around than that same cable running to the edge of a motherboard next to the power supply.
- cesarb 3y ago
  I have the suspicion that they're more concerned with aesthetics than with airflow. Transparent PC cases are a plague.
- lacksconfidence 3y ago
  I was optimistic they were trying to resolve the issue with melting connectors by using a better method, but I think you might be right and this is unrelated.

specker 3y ago

Practically speaking, low-end mobos could just have an empty hole through the PCB for a power cable to go to the GPU from the power supply instead of soldering the connection and running all that power through the mobo. That power circuitry can't be easy to have around the chipset, right? Also, with this connector being so far away from the mounting brace to the case, would GPU sagging torque/bend/ this connector and all 600w of power going to it? A 600w GPU would have a big 'ol cooler and have big sag, right?

p1esk 3y ago
What are you talking about? GPU cards are already powered directly from the power supply. PCIe can only supply up to 75W.

dagmx 3y ago

I’m a huge fan of this kind of setup and I hope it becomes the norm across other manufacturers as well. The last Intel Mac Pro had an extremely similar power delivery method, and it really makes for a very clean look + simplifies things ever so slightly when replacing cards. I’m sure people will say that neither of those things are worth it for the change involved, but I’m still hopeful that this becomes part of the ATX standard going forward

cmovq 3y ago

It’s a shame this will make graphics cards using this connector incompatible with mini ITX.

whoopdedo 3y ago
The lengths of these cards already requires at least a miniATX if not a full ATX. For SSF you'd be using a riser cable anyway. Just means you'll have a riser with data and power together which is even better since it eliminates the PSU-to-GPU cable and requires less space above the GPU wherever you mount it.

aidenn0 3y ago

I've always had a dream that someone would maintain a list of GPUs that can be powered off of the PCIe bus. Not just one less cable to deal with, but I actually know the peak power draw won't be over 75W instead of whatever BS number they use for power rating.

oakwhiz 3y ago
Or some kind of mode on the GPU that reduces performance slightly to stay within the slot-only power limit. Cards already do power limiting, I wonder how easy this would be.