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I'm all for it. But there are some practical hurdles to overcome to being successful at changing how you garden or cultivate the land. I've only just started

I'm all for it. But there are some practical hurdles to overcome to being successful at changing how you garden or cultivate the land. I've only just started looking into this, and I've already hit some trouble. Where I live, the most abundant non-native plants are suburban lawns. If you're taking this fight home, please familiarize yourself with your HOA bylaws (if you have one). You may be surprised at what qualifies as a "garden", and what you must cultivate in terms of a "lawn". There are practical limits, but there are also workarounds. The second biggest problem I face is that native plants here have a very bad time standing up to invasive species. Namely, kudzu and about three other species of vines and bamboo. Also native tree species like locust are very good at sending new suckers far into open spaces. So letting my greenspace simply go wild is not enough - a planned and perpetually maintained approach is a must. While it's possible to do all this with less effort than mowing a lawn, that's not a guarantee.

coldpie 3y ago
Hmm, just a thought (I've never lived in an area with an HOA), but how hard are HOAs to legally dismantle? It seems like absolutely no one likes having them, other than the power-trippers who run them. Would it be feasible for a group of neighbors to band together and dismantle theirs? Some areas, like Minnesota, are also introducing laws to preempt cities from banning native lawns, though it's not clear if they can override busybody HOAs. https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minnesota-cities-can-no-longer-mandate-turf-grass-lawns/ https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minnesota-cities-can-no...
- wingspar 3y ago
  As a practical matter, it's all but impossible in most circumstances. (even setting aside getting the owners, some/many of whom are landlords, to approve a dissolution) Usually the HOA legally owns the 'common property', such as retention ponds, club houses, pools, 'parks', etc. If it's a gated community, the HOA owns the roads. The HOA is legally responsible for maintaining those common areas, mowing, cleaning, resurfacing, and even insuring. So if the HOA is dissolved, who owns the common areas, and who pays for (and manages) maintaining them? As I understand it, local government loves HOAs, as they reduce the work they have to do. That tot-lot 'park' is not maintained by the city/county. Those retention ponds are not the counties problem when they go stagnant and have fish-kills. Some states have laws to restrict some of the things HOA's can restrict. Like solar panels, clotheslines, flag poles, and landscaping. Not enough though...
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
A lot of the anti-lawn talk speaks to me of places that are arid and low on reliable rainfall and fields of grass are ecologically stupid and require watering etc. But anywhere in the humid temperate eastern half of North America, plants are just gonna take over like crazy anywhere, grasses included, and if you don't mow or have a goat, or carefully "curate" what's growing you're gonna just get something... crazy with knee high crab grass, thistles, brambles, and volunteer shrubs of a million kind. Here (southern Ontario, on 6 acres), if I leave an area unmowed, it'll be covered in staghorn sumac and invasive mulberries within a year. I deliberately let the back half the property go that way, but I absolutely have to mow elsewhere. Urban areas aren't quite the same but the same principle applies: it is often a lot more work to maintain something that looks like a nice "native plant pollinator" garden, so some of the "you shouldn't have a lawn, it's too much work, just let the native plants grow" talk I hear just makes me go cross-eyed "huh?" I don't seed or sod or fertilize or level or aerate. I just run over the grass with a mower and it just takes care of itself. A lot of what people hold up as "natural" alternatives to lawns are in fact highly cultivated and maintained patches of aesthetics.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
hinkley 3y ago
I'm using alder for nitrogen fixing. I don't relish dealing with locusts (some strains of honey locust have no thorns, others have some of the biggest), particularly since I don't always wear boots when out in the garden. Unfortunately the only alder I see that's native to the SE is 'thicket forming' which probably is not the sort of hobby you're looking for. Ceanothus is popular in these parts. There's an eastern one (Ceanothus americanus) that I have no experience with but seems to have a habit more like a hydrangea. If it's anything like it's western cousins it will be mobbed by pollinators. So maybe not by your sidewalk...
- hansvm 3y ago
  I've had locust thorns go through a nice pair of boots.

coldpie 3y ago

Hmm, just a thought (I've never lived in an area with an HOA), but how hard are HOAs to legally dismantle? It seems like absolutely no one likes having them, other than the power-trippers who run them. Would it be feasible for a group of neighbors to band together and dismantle theirs? Some areas, like Minnesota, are also introducing laws to preempt cities from banning native lawns, though it's not clear if they can override busybody HOAs. https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minnesota-cities-can-no-longer-mandate-turf-grass-lawns/ https://minnesotareformer.com/briefs/minnesota-cities-can-no...

wingspar 3y ago
As a practical matter, it's all but impossible in most circumstances. (even setting aside getting the owners, some/many of whom are landlords, to approve a dissolution) Usually the HOA legally owns the 'common property', such as retention ponds, club houses, pools, 'parks', etc. If it's a gated community, the HOA owns the roads. The HOA is legally responsible for maintaining those common areas, mowing, cleaning, resurfacing, and even insuring. So if the HOA is dissolved, who owns the common areas, and who pays for (and manages) maintaining them? As I understand it, local government loves HOAs, as they reduce the work they have to do. That tot-lot 'park' is not maintained by the city/county. Those retention ponds are not the counties problem when they go stagnant and have fish-kills. Some states have laws to restrict some of the things HOA's can restrict. Like solar panels, clotheslines, flag poles, and landscaping. Not enough though...

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

A lot of the anti-lawn talk speaks to me of places that are arid and low on reliable rainfall and fields of grass are ecologically stupid and require watering etc. But anywhere in the humid temperate eastern half of North America, plants are just gonna take over like crazy anywhere, grasses included, and if you don't mow or have a goat, or carefully "curate" what's growing you're gonna just get something... crazy with knee high crab grass, thistles, brambles, and volunteer shrubs of a million kind. Here (southern Ontario, on 6 acres), if I leave an area unmowed, it'll be covered in staghorn sumac and invasive mulberries within a year. I deliberately let the back half the property go that way, but I absolutely have to mow elsewhere. Urban areas aren't quite the same but the same principle applies: it is often a lot more work to maintain something that looks like a nice "native plant pollinator" garden, so some of the "you shouldn't have a lawn, it's too much work, just let the native plants grow" talk I hear just makes me go cross-eyed "huh?" I don't seed or sod or fertilize or level or aerate. I just run over the grass with a mower and it just takes care of itself. A lot of what people hold up as "natural" alternatives to lawns are in fact highly cultivated and maintained patches of aesthetics.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hinkley 3y ago

I'm using alder for nitrogen fixing. I don't relish dealing with locusts (some strains of honey locust have no thorns, others have some of the biggest), particularly since I don't always wear boots when out in the garden. Unfortunately the only alder I see that's native to the SE is 'thicket forming' which probably is not the sort of hobby you're looking for. Ceanothus is popular in these parts. There's an eastern one (Ceanothus americanus) that I have no experience with but seems to have a habit more like a hydrangea. If it's anything like it's western cousins it will be mobbed by pollinators. So maybe not by your sidewalk...

hansvm 3y ago
I've had locust thorns go through a nice pair of boots.